The jigsaw or the hammer?

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:04 pm

So, which tool is more likely to cause injury to the user (in that carpal tunnel type way)... the jigsaw or the hammer.

I am beginning to suspect the jigsaw actually holds more danger for me as a full time armourer than the hammer.

Anyone know for sure?

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:06 pm

Repetition and shock of any kind are what does it. Try using fingerless bicycle gel gloves to cut down on the impact transmission to your joints and tendons. Wrist braces don't hurt either.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:01 pm

I was thinking that the best way to solve the problem might be for me to break down and finally get a beverly shear for much of the basic cutting and save the jigsaw for the more detailed curvey stuff.

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:45 pm

Otto get an electric shear they're more practical then a beverly for a one man operation and they're about half the price. Mine cuts up to 10ga mild.

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:53 pm

Otto wrote:I was thinking that the best way to solve the problem might be for me to break down and finally get a beverly shear for much of the basic cutting and save the jigsaw for the more detailed curvey stuff.

I never regretted the 600 bucks for my shear. It was a lot of bling to put out, but one will last you for a lifetime. And unlike electric tools-it won't go tits up in a year, leaving you to buy another. And you won't be paying for power to run it.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:59 pm

InfinitySteel wrote:And unlike electric tools-it won't go tits up in a year, leaving you to buy another. And you won't be paying for power to run it.

While the beverlies are way nice, and I would very much like to have one. A Makita JS3200 will do 1/8" mild, and 12 stainless. It's about $350-400 vs. the $600 you quote for the beverly, unless prices have gone up since I got mine. It will also cut tighter radii than the beverly. Depending on which way you're cutting, you can get it to cut way tighter (but the scrap side is MANGLED).

I would shit my pants if you could get it to go tits up in a year under anything resembling normal wear and tear, and staying within stated capacities. First time I saw one was about.... 15 years ago, and it was still kicking butt up till early this year, when the head cracked. Replacement was ordered for about $70 I think.

The only thing in specified capacity what will slow this thing down is when cutting large peices (like cutting a 4'x4' down to 4'x2') the stock will pinch the throat of the shear. I like it when it slows down this way, because running wild and free, it goes faster than I am sometimes able to closely control. I honestly think that it will eat anything you can fit between the beasties teeth.

Top blades are 4 sided, an bottom blades are 4 sided and 'reversable' for 8 sides effectively. Yeah.... it does take electricity, but I doubt any more than the jigsaw. Biggest downside, of all of the tools that I own, this is the only one that I get the least bit timmid near. It is a beast, and I respect it greatly.

whonew · Post by **whonew** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:08 pm

anyone ever use "anti-vibration" or "gel-palm" gloves?

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:24 pm

Yes, when doing heavy work with rawhide mallets. Specifically, heat forming reverse bends in things like helmet skirts. You don't have a lot of time to move stuff before the heat goes, you have to whack it hard.

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:26 pm

mattmaus wrote:
InfinitySteel wrote:And unlike electric tools-it won't go tits up in a year, leaving you to buy another. And you won't be paying for power to run it.

While the beverlies are way nice, and I would very much like to have one. A Makita JS3200 will do 1/8" mild, and 12 stainless. It's about $350-400 vs. the $600 you quote for the beverly, unless prices have gone up since I got mine. It will also cut tighter radii than the beverly. Depending on which way you're cutting, you can get it to cut way tighter (but the scrap side is MANGLED).

I would shit my pants if you could get it to go tits up in a year under anything resembling normal wear and tear, and staying within stated capacities. First time I saw one was about.... 15 years ago, and it was still kicking butt up till early this year, when the head cracked. Replacement was ordered for about $70 I think.

The only thing in specified capacity what will slow this thing down is when cutting large peices (like cutting a 4'x4' down to 4'x2') the stock will pinch the throat of the shear. I like it when it slows down this way, because running wild and free, it goes faster than I am sometimes able to closely control. I honestly think that it will eat anything you can fit between the beasties teeth.

Top blades are 4 sided, an bottom blades are 4 sided and 'reversable' for 8 sides effectively. Yeah.... it does take electricity, but I doubt any more than the jigsaw. Biggest downside, of all of the tools that I own, this is the only one that I get the least bit timmid near. It is a beast, and I respect it greatly.

Is it really noisy tho?

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:48 pm

InfinitySteel wrote: Is it really noisy tho?

Depends on what you call noisy.

Sitting and running, not cutting, I would say it makes about 2/3rds of the noise my 4" angle grinder makes under no load.

Even at it's noisiest it's hell and gone less noisy than the 80 gallon upright compressor (aside from the air planisher, which it feeds, and cold dishing stainless, easily the noisiest thing in my shop).

I would say that it makes significantly less noise than a jigsaw, when I am cutting.

Depending on how you cut, yeah, it's gonna make some noise. When I ripped the last batch of sheets down from 4x4 to 4x2 the side I had on my workbench was pretty quiet, I was sitting on it. The side that was hangin off the bench on on a trashcan vibrated and rattled a bit.

Smaller stuff is pretty quiet. If I'm cutting... say cheeks for a helm, I usualy rough cut them out of the sheet, then kneel, brace the shear on the inside of my leg, and feed it in. If it gets cranky, it'll rattle some, but no more than if you took a similar size sheet and tapped it gently on a bench, plus the motor.

Bigger stuff rattles a bit more if it's loose. Easy solution, Quick-grip the work down to the bench, or, sit on it.

In short, it makes more noise than a beverly, but a lot less than a jigsaw or abrasive cut off wheel, and slightly less than a cold chisel.

It's NOT the perfect tool that will end all other tools. If I have to trim on something that's allready been shaped, its the jigsaw again, but... There is no "one" solution.

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:09 am

hmm....I just pay a bit more at the yard to have stock chopped into 2 by fours. Take it home and rack it. Works for me, never had any reason to change the system. I'll set up a cnc plasma eventually... then things will change.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:20 am

I have an electric shear, a jig saw, and both B-2 and B-3 beverlys. I send most jobs out to laser cutter

I use the Beverlys most. The electric shear is bloody noisy but comes in hand for the rare times I'm dealing with a sheet to big to handle by hand ( I usually get stuff sheard to 4" by 2" like Infinity does). the jigsaw is noisy too and not worth a damn on stainless.

Damage to your body will depend on how much you cut: the vibration from the electric tools can contribute to carple tunnel while doing lots of 12ga stainles, even with B-3 will do a number on your shoulder after a while.

Beverlys are expensive new but good used ones either 2s or 3s aren't too hard to find for between$400 and$500.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:22 am

Yard I go to charges $10 a cut. Getting it cut to 4x4 costs me $10. Getting it cut to 4x2's would cost me $30. IMHO, that's a little out of hand. Especialy since last time I went there I almost had to teach them how to work their own shear. I spent 30 minutes watching them wander the yard looking for someone who could figure out how to step on the foot pedal.

THEY just got one of the spiffy water-jet cutting rigs. It is pretty sweet. Lots less cleanup on the edges than with a plasma cutter, and it will do some tiny tiny detail. Jewelers saw kind of detail. They want $75 an hour to run it though. It'll cut lots of stuff too. They're advertising it with tile more than steel, They've got a couple grannite tiles in the office different colors, with an elk cut out of each one, then put into the hole of the other tile.

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:30 am

mattmaus wrote:Yard I go to charges $10 a cut. Getting it cut to 4x4 costs me $10. Getting it cut to 4x2's would cost me $30. IMHO, that's a little out of hand. Especialy since last time I went there I almost had to teach them how to work their own shear. I spent 30 minutes watching them wander the yard looking for someone who could figure out how to step on the foot pedal.

THEY just got one of the spiffy water-jet cutting rigs. It is pretty sweet. Lots less cleanup on the edges than with a plasma cutter, and it will do some tiny tiny detail. Jewelers saw kind of detail. They want $75 an hour to run it though. It'll cut lots of stuff too. They're advertising it with tile more than steel, They've got a couple grannite tiles in the office different colors, with an elk cut out of each one, then put into the hole of the other tile.

A laser cutter will make a lot of parts in an hour. Cutting and deburring is about a third of the work. If you do stock runs and can get several thousand bucks worth of finished product cut for 75 an hour-it's more than worth the time saved.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:27 pm

$75/hr sounds cheap for water jet to me though I usually see quotes based on length of cut than straight time. Water jet can be slower on harder materials than a laser since it's an abrasive process but I find either more economical for production runs.

InfinitySteel · Post by **InfinitySteel** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:33 pm

Cet wrote:$75/hr sounds cheap for water jet to me though I usually see quotes based on length of cut than straight time. Water jet can be slower on harder materials than a laser since it's an abrasive process but I find either more economical for production runs.

I see laser quoted at around 200 an hour on average. Depends entirely on the wattage-higher amps move FAST. Still, if you have a few grand to spend on an amount of steel-what you can get cut in a day will keep you busy for a month or more in the shop bumping it up and assembling it.

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:47 pm

I get my steel in 4x8 or 4x10. Then I mark and cut straight from those sheets. It means less scrap. I've cut up 4 4x10s of stainless and still have only filled about a quarter of a garbage can with scrap.

I've thought about laser cutting (I can do the cadd work myself) but I don't do much volume at the moment so it isn't really feasable. I'm actually managing to spend more time working lately instead of sleeping and I think I'm producing more then I'm selling. So any job I can do means I'm getting payed for instead of someone elce.

If I had a beverly and an electric I would use both. If I had to pick only one it'd be the electric. Doesn't make that much noise considering I wear mouse ears the whole time I'm in the shop.