Need Help Making Corinthian Horse Hair Crests

[Vik]

Hi,

I know there are a few people on the Archive who have experience making the Greek crest boxes and horsehair crests (calling Eyvander et all ) and I was wondering if they could help me out by answering some basic questions..... I want to make a vertical crest that goes from front to back (like a mohawk). And I want the crest box to be leaher, not wood.



How wide is the leather crest box? It seems to be 1" wide at the widest, and taper to 2x the width of the leather at the front. True?

How much horsehair is needed to make a really thick crest? Is one pound too much? A half pound?

What length of horsehair do you normally use?

Where do you get good quality WHITE horsehair?
I googled it, but some suppliers in the States don't have a website. And maybe you guys know of a good place. I'm in Canada so I will have to ship it in.

How do you hold the horsehair in the leather crestbox? Glue? Stitching? Both?

Any help by experienced hands is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Vik

[Rev. George]

How do you hold the horsehair in the leather crestbox? Glue? Stitching? Both? I have never made one, but I'm guessing, givent he length of horse tail hair and the length of the crest that the crest you see is made up of book folded hairs looped over something in the crest box.

If that's hard to visualize, imagine each individual hair being shaped like a "U" wrapped around a thong/wire/bit of stitching

-+G

[Cannonshots]

Well....... Firstly ya gotta go catch yourself a Corinthian Horse ! Then ya get a big pair of siccors and ........

[Matthew Amt]

Khaire!

Well, I made my Corinthian crest the same way I've done Roman ones,

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/crests.html

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/corinsd.jpg

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/crstft.jpg

(Yeah, I need a few more good photos, particularly of the process!)

First off, the crest block should NOT be taller at the front than at the back! That's an error started by Deepeeka in India resulting from a misinterpretation of a photo of a reconstruction. It should be in the 1-1/4" range for the whole length.

I've never made one out of leather, only wood. It's a matter of separating the hair into tufts and gluing them into holes in the wood. You might do the same thing with layered leather, perhaps? Or use a wood block and cover it with leather? If it's for SCA use, I can certainly understand not using wood, though, since it will break.

About half a pound is what I use for a full-length crest, though the crests from Albion Armorers use 2 to 3 times that much. VERY nice, if a little heavy on the head! One pound should be plenty. I cut the hair to about 12 inches, then fold the tufts in the middle so that they are about 6 inches tall. Seems to work fine. On my Greek crest I left the hair of the rearmost few rows the full 24 inches, to form the "tail".

I haven't shopped for horsehair for a while, but I'm surprised you can't find white. Leather suppliers such as Tandy or Leather Unlimited ought to carry it, either by the ounce or in 1-lb bundles. Of course, if you're looking for WHITE white rather than the natural blond, that could be a problem. You might try Tails and Tack, tailsandtack AT yahoo DOT com. As I recall their prices were a little high, but they'll do custom dyeing so they might have whiter whites.

Sing out if you need more help! It's a tedious job, by the way.

Matthew

[Eyvandr]

Vik,

Shoot me another e-mail and I can try to help you out a bit more offline. I am about to start working on 2 crests for some other Antirian's courtsy of Duke Uther... but as for you questions... here are some answers:

How wide is the leather crest box? It seems to be 1" wide at the widest, and taper to 2x the width of the leather at the front. True? Width is basically 1.25"-1.5" on the crest

How much horsehair is needed to make a really thick crest? Is one pound too much? A half pound? I use 2lbs minium in mine, more if there is a long tail. This has alot to do with why mine tend to look a cut above, and are so full bodied when they begin to fan out a little.

What length of horsehair do you normally use? 7-8" tuffs, and hair long enough to make the tail if the customer requests it. I usually get hair in that is basically 23-24" long, so I devide it into 3 and go from there.

Where do you get good quality WHITE horsehair?
I googled it, but some suppliers in the States don't have a website. And maybe you guys know of a good place. I'm in Canada so I will have to ship it in. I have some suppliers. Hit me up and I can work this out with you.

How do you hold the horsehair in the leather crestbox? Glue? Stitching? Both? Glue, I need lots of glue!!! and then you stitch it into the crest box.

And for $225 + shipping I will take care of it for you.

[Ld Thomas Willoughby]

My brother made himself a quick and dirty one that doesnt look to bad. He took 3 pieces of 10oz leather and used liquid nails to glue them together with the horsehair sandwiched between them. He then covered the outside of it with some ligher leather to clean it up. It's attached to his helm with 4 sets of L brackets. Its taken hundreds of sword hits and the worse thing thats happened is the front set of brackets bend every now and then from a polearm or 2 hander hitting it pretty solid. He just takes his sword and smacks it back over. Mind you its not as pretty as it could be but he wanted something that would take rattan abuse and was afraid that a wood base would shatter sooner or later.

[Eyvandr]

Thomas do you have any pictures of it?

[adric]

OR you can make it break away and attach it with velcro. The only down side here is Melees so it may need a lanyard to not loose it on the field.

[Ld Thomas Willoughby]

Ok, lets see if this works

[img]http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6842/titussidesc2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/4247/titusfrontxh2.jpg[/img]

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Sir Ulric has his attached by either velco, or magnets (forget which). He tends to loose it in melees, and I think it has been "ransomed" before as well.

[Vik]

Thanks to everyone for their help. I have a pretty good idea of how to proceed into the project.

Eyvandr - I shot you an email via the WesternSpartans website - Thanks

Vik

[Eyvandr]

Chicago Screws are the way to go for attachment. You wont loose your crest while fighting, and you can take the thing off when you are not using it. this way you can hang the crest or better yet, lay it flat to keep it from brooming on you.

[Sagebowman]

Vic, I do violin bow rehairing using white hair. It ain't cheap. It can cost up to $400-500 per pound. Mare hair is the cheapest, because it has to be bleached to get out the urine stains. Mongolian is cheaper than Siberian breed hair. The longer it is the more expensive, usually 31" and over the highest price. Sometimes you can find 28" for under $150 per pound. Brown or "salt & pepper" hair is the cheapest and can be under $100 for 2-2 1/2 pound bundles at 30-32 ". This can be folded over and attached probably 2-3 times.
I haven't bought any lately, but will have to within a week because I only have enough for 5 or 6 more bows. I can get more accurate prices for you if you would like and get a wholesale price.
Gene

[Vik]

hey Sagebowman,
That would be cool. I just need it white enough to take dye, so if you can get 24" or so lengths for around $50 a pound lemme know and I'm in. I have a US addy to send it to if customs is a hassle.

Thanks
Vik