Norse Helm for SCA Heavy or.. Otto strikes again

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:46 pm

Well, here's another new helm I present for comments/critiques. This one is supposedly a more proper style of norse helm and is designed specifically for SCA heavy combat.

Comments/Critiques?

Oh, I will add that I found it impractical to add the rivet near the tip of the nasal, so I welded it to both the central support bar and the curved piece below the eyes.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:34 pm

Looks good. You might want to see about getting some brass, simply to add a bit of extra for people who want a more decorative helm. Other than that, they tend to look good for a starter helm.

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:53 pm

Looks Good Otto, I think it looks much better than alot of the other "norse-ish" helms out there. It does need something to dress it up some. Of course that could be the new owner's responsibility.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:07 pm

Actually, I'd have cheerfully put brass on the occular pieces... but it's made to the specs of the person who ordered it.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:09 pm

ocular is a little large for my personal taste, but its a good looking helm.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:35 pm

Nice helmet...

Have you ever thought about rivetting the bars to the inside of the cheekplates instead of the outside? That, and painting or blueing the bars black would do a lot in my opinion.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:54 pm

This is a handsome helm. We're getting better at this.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:51 pm

'preciate the compliments all...

Cedric... I'm always a bit worried about applying any paint or such unless specifically requested. The safest route for me has traditionally been to deliver a totally clean product and the customer can play with all the paint and so forth that they want.

Oh, and the rivetting bars on the inside... I don't know if it's still true, but in the past that used to make the marshals all pissy and such... so I've gone with the safe route so the user won't have any trouble getting on the field.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:06 pm

To rivet to the inside, the helm must be of "superior construction". With just riveting, I think you (and your reputation) is safer, going with the way that has a much higher chance of the marshalls passing your helms. Just my opinion.

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:51 pm

Plus, the bars being on the outside would not show with a nice maille drape/aventaille hanging around the bottom of the occular and bowl.

Very nice. I MAY have someone to send your way.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:39 am

A "superior construction" detail might be to frame such interior-placed crossbars all around the edges of the crossbar area so that all the ends of the crossbars are connected together very strongly, and any array of rivets all reinforce each other as a result, rather than an individual bar and its individual terminal rivet taking all the strain.

How much of a necessity this would be, with its added complication and somewhat increased weight, is very much open to debate though.

The antithesis to this thesis would be that the unspecified "superior construction" would be superior to what -- amateur hippie-kluge garage metalwork with, say, a carpenters' hammer, a handheld 3/8" drill, and a track anvil? Something a bit better equipped?

The essence of such would seem to be that the rivets should be adequately clinched.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:13 am

I always figured it meant a small weld on the bar itself along with the rivet, but alas, i am no marshal.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:38 am

You see, there-in lies the problem... "superior construction" is such a vague term that different marshals interpret it differently. Armour inspection prior to fighting was always something I hated, so I've gone with the method that;
a) I find to be safest (if a bar does happen to break, it's still on the outside and it's still connected to the other bars via the central support,
and
b) has traditionally drawn the best results at inspection times.

My helms, as made currently, breeze through armour inspections and have never had a safety failure (at least not reported to me... and I do ask after them from time to time)...

So, while I do envy the looks of a quality welded grill, for my stock items, I prefer to go with what has given me proven/time-tested results.

Sinister_Theo · Post by **Sinister_Theo** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:58 pm

Are the oculars off center? They look to be so in the picture. From what I have seen of your work so far you have talent and seem to be improving with every piece.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:35 pm

Nah, I pretty sure that's attributable to camera angle.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:46 pm

I knew WHY you weld the bars to the outside, I have to deal with just as many marshall inspections as anyone else....

I was just offering an opinion on something that would improve the looks of your helmets. The bars are always one of the biggest things that stand out in SCA helmets and make them look "wrong". The way your grills are constructed is very safe, but it makes the bars stand out more then is necessary and takes away from the rest of the helmet.

Anyways, just my opinion and all that... worth what you paid for it.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:33 pm

Oh, I fully agree with you on the looks issue. I think if the bars were welded to the inside of helms, it'd go a long way toward preserving the proper appearance of the helm.

Though, I will say that I've been present for the results of an interior attached bar breaking and severly gouging the wearer. As such, I really am a bit mental about the whole "safety first" issue.

Actually, I intend to carry a fairly wide line of dress helms... in those, I will be able to indulge "proper" appearance.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:05 pm

I'm coming into this discussion a little late but there is always a work around to the "Riveted Inside" rule. At no point does the "interior" have to be a continuous surface. You can grab a strip a 14ga (or anything over .0625) and samwhich the bars between the cheek plates and the strip. Now the "inside" is a perfectly legal piece of 14ga and the cheek plates, for the last inch or so, are nothing more then cosmetic.

On one hand it's a cheese-weasel excuse to get around the rules. On another hand, even if you blow one rivet, all of the other rivets will hold the strip in place and prevent the bar from bending in to touch the face.

Sean