Arms Critique

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:48 pm

These are my first attempt at articulated arms, any tips that can be given, or screw ups that can be pointed out?

EDIT Please ignore the dirty carpet, stanley steamer will be here tommarow.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:49 pm

two more

Adam H. · Post by **Adam H.** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:30 pm

The only suggestion I have is for looks; stain the leather! Other than that, it looks great. If I had any money I would buy that.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:21 pm

Im going to dye the leather once i have time, but who knows when that will be. I was thinking about maybe making a couple extra to sale, but id have no idea on what to charge for them. Thanks for the compliments though. Anyone else have suggestions or whatever?

Edited because i cant spell.

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:31 pm

as for the leather- when you rivet the vambrace/rerbrace to the couter make sure that the edge that is riveted to the couter is very far in. in other words, the riveted edge shold cover up both of the lames or close to covering bot lames. this is at least what I've done in the past with good sucess. I'm not sure who, but an armourer that I met a year or two back told me to do this, and so I did. I've had no problems so far.

as for the couter- the lames look a little long, but that may be the stye desired. also they seem a little shallow- but it looks like they function quite well.

other than that, lookin good and keep up the good work

Hope this helps,

Aaron

BTW- have you considered tooling on the leather? it would look freakin awesome :twisted:

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:32 pm

Well... it depends on what you are aiming for.

For standard, SCA, stop-my-arms-from-getting-hurt, purposes, these are most certainly adequate. For historical reproduction purposes, well, there's some things that could use some improvement, as these don't really fit in anywhere. Things I would change both for functionality and historical look-

1. Take a look at your elbow while it's bent. It's pointed, right? So should the cops be, but this usually requires welding, raising, or starting with a really overly thick piece of metal to coax it into a deep, pointed shape. Ideally, your elbow shouldn't be able to ground out in the cop.

2. Rather than the one splint, I'd do several longer, skinnier ones, as that is what we have precedence for, and what I think looks neat.

Otherwise, very nice. My first arms were not that functional.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:45 pm

For the historical aspect on these, i was trying for something that could possibly be late viking/early norman. I can actually wear these under my fighter tunic (which i somewhat made them for if they turned out fugly). I have no clue how to tool leather, so if someone could pm a site with directions on how to i can certainly try some. Any other suggestions on what i did wrong or what i can change for the next pair?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:56 pm

LL, keep an eye on those copper rivets you've articulated the lames and cop with -- copper rivets and burrs were never meant to be articulation hinges. If they wear down pretty badly or start blowing when hit, set about replacing them with steel rivets, either bought or homemade from big nails. Copper is considerably softer than steel, and your R&B's are 1/8" through the shank. 3/16" steel is much more the usual.

It's been said elsewhere that this kind of smooth and rather shallow cop shape is well suited to the knee joint, which is blunter when flexed. I suppose it bears repeating here -- you've just learned to make really good knees! So take heart; you're progressing, and your efforts are paying off!

Your steel pieces are nice and smooth, the edges well finished. You show good attention to detail, and what's really great is your articulated pieces don't gap. Now get out on the field and use 'em.

You are going to be a champion!

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:54 pm

Thanks alot you guys, the compliments mean alot to me. If theres anything else wrong with these, please speak. Im looking at maybe doing another couple more of these, so anything i can learn now will help with those. Those ones might end up for sale if i can figure out a price of them. These ones are for me.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:15 pm

LordLokeildson wrote:For the historical aspect on these, i was trying for something that could possibly be late viking/early norman.

Well, not to knock on your design or anything, but you are SOL for that timeperiod. There is nothing on your arms besides a maille hauberk (usually shortsleeved). However, if they can fit under your tunic, you can get the right look. So you are just going for functional, as opposed to making them look pretty, right? If so, I would say good job. Not sure what the buckle at the top of the rebrace is for, but overall, nice job.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:35 pm

That buckle is there to attach to a strap on my CoP, just to make sure they dont slip down. A problem i had with my ice falcon elbows was that they sagged a bit, so i put an extra strap on there just to make sure they wouldnt.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:08 pm

Oswyn, so your saying they arent pretty?!?!?! Jk... i know they arent good looking, but i figure its a first attempt, and with my persona im not supposed to wear arms anyways. Im hoping to build another set sometime this week if time allows. Im curious though by your statement of "So you are just going for functional, as opposed to making them look pretty, right? If so, I would say good job". Should i of done something different looks-wise? Im not offended or anything, just wanting to learn.

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:42 pm

Not really. What I meant by that was the point of not trying out anything really fancy on this. Aka. gilding the edge, etching the steel, trying to tool the leather. For a munitions grade, they look really great. My only concern would be with the single reinforcement on the forearm. I would make sure it is fitted well to the curve of the forearm, as I am not sure it would work as well if it was wider (would stick out) or narrower (would pinch against the arm). This becomes less of a problem with many narrow splints, as the leather can bend in between.

LordLokeildson · Post by **LordLokeildson** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:53 pm

That definately makes sense. The thought didnt cross my mind since i made these for myself, and was able to shape the single plate to fit. Next pair ill make splinted.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:32 pm

These look a bit like you were more excited about getting them together and making sure they worked than you were worried about making sure you had all the bits and pieces finished.

That's completely understandable, I do it myself, it's less of a criticism than it is a comment.

However

... You mention dyeing the leather at some later time. You can, but it's really much easier/better to do the dyeing before you put the pieces together. When you dye an assembled project, you can't get the dye into all the nooks and crannies, and you will get it onto parts you might not have intended to.

It looks like you've left the edges of the leather "rough from the knife".
This is mostly, but not entirely, a cosmetic issue. The unfinished leather edges are rougher on your skin/clothing than if they've been slicked.

Finishing the edges of the pieces as you go along doesn't take all that long, and it distinctly improves the look of the work.

You might want to take a look at some of Uilleag's threads on works in progress. I think he sets the bar when it comes to making leather armour for SCA use. You can pick up some good technical tips on working with leather and some invaluable images that show what can be done.

You've got yourself a fine start, but you did say you wanted suggestions on how to improve.

Gavin

Albrechtthesilent · Post by **Albrechtthesilent** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:02 am

Alright, I'm by no means a master and have yet managed the testicular fortitude to post any of my work. One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is the articulations. It looks like you curled out the inside edge of some of your lames in order to make the articulations catch. This works. We've all done it. However, I wouldn't "buy" a piece like that. (Just being honest.) Take the time and engineer the articulations so the lames sit flush both open and closed. This is as much an exercise in proper pattern making as it is in pounding metal. And you will waste metal learning this. That's life sometimes. The only other thing I've got to add is to put a third rivet in the middle of your outer most lames. This will keep the leather from popping out from behind the metal. You can do this instead of cutting your vambrace and rearbrace long (like Air Bear said to do). Though, if you're going for a "historical" look, do what Air Bear said.

Albrecht
Who is going to quit being shy about his work in the near future, so you'll all get the opportunity to critique me as well.