Stonekeep: New Product: Rotating Vambrace Arms for SCA

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:22 pm

Stonekeep: New Product: Rotating Vambrace Arms

Give the credit to Iean on this one. he was here about 3 months ago and planted the seed on this. I just havent had the time to pursue it till now.

The problem I feel with most steel or stainless steel arms is the vambrace is securely riveted to the lames of the joint and therefore to make the shots we require int he sca your arm must twist inside the vambrace. Thats uncomfortable and rather restrictive on your shotmaking. While at rest steel arms fit your arm similiar to the position it would be in while lifting a dumbell, straight in line with the joint lames. When you make the forward snap shot to the head, the forearm needs to twist outward approx. 1.5 inches to make a good extended shot. When you make a wide arcing shot such as to the legs, or an arcing shot to the shield side of your opponents head it need to rotate approx. 3 inches (or as much as your arm and wrist can physically do working together. Like I said most steel arms are very restrictive on good shot making, so I sat down (after Iean's suggestion) and put these together for a client today.

Basic profile:
<img src="http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/spiers-saddlery_1939_673549">

Showing the full extension you can achieve in a forward snap shot.
<img src="http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/spiers-saddlery_1939_836083">

Rotating vambrace articulation in neutral position.
<img src="http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/spiers-saddlery_1939_1016499">

Showing the rotating vambraces fully turned to fascilitate an outward block or a wide arcing side shot either to the legs or head. (Normally restricted by solidly riveted vambraces)
<img src="http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/spiers-saddlery_1939_1164648">

I think this is important enough that I wont even be doing this an option, it will just be standard on all of our steel and stainless arms from now on.

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:25 pm

great innovation! Your stuff is really getting better and better!

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:33 pm

Well..... not really an innovation as much as just re-inventing the wheel. Most munitions armor, these days, have vambraces locked into place, but if you look at reproduction armor like Valentine they have rotating vambraces (differently made, but similiar in function). I had looked at his more complex method closely but felt the crushing blows of rattan would just end up locking the rotation. This can take a hit. More like sliding rivet articulation in gauntlets.

brookswift · Post by **brookswift** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:09 pm

damn... you just keep making me want to buy more of your stuff :-p.

my vambraces are the hard riveted kind. they're just big enough (and completely circular) that i don't get chaffing when i turn my wrist in them.

so when are you going to start making encased greaves and sabatons? you've almost got the whole 14th century kit. some fingered gauntlets too

.

I can just envision you coming out with a munitions 14th century mafia complete kit. (like the ones that illusion teases us with).

Odawara Taro Yoshinobu · Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:23 pm

wow, thats purdy

GAUNTLETS!!!!

NOW!!!!

MENPO!!!

GET ON IT!!!

DeCalmont · Post by **DeCalmont** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:25 pm

When does this take effect? I've got an order in with you that got there early this week, any chance?

Order was for Paul Thorne
5 lame, fanless

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:41 pm

DeCalmont wrote:When does this take effect? I've got an order in with you that got there early this week, any chance?

Order was for Paul Thorne
5 lame, fanless

Hi Paul, Had to look it up. Those are NOT yours. Those are stainless with brass rivets. Ive got a order for 20 elbw joints and knee joints going to another armory. Started this afternoon, should be done by tuesday or monday maybe, then you are up... But yes, unless you tell me right now, yours will be made this way..lol

Encased Greaves and Sabatons will be neccessary to complete the full suit I will be presenting at kingdom a&s next year... so.... sometimes between now and then.. I will probably make them at the same time and present them as one item in a local a&s comp. Ive never studied 14th century because of all the chainmail, although a lot of our munitions plate is used for it.

Funny... I dont seem to need a "mempo" for that suit.... bahahahaa

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:22 pm

Hah, I knew all those trips up to your place would pay off. Looking good. JP if you don't get this on yours I am going to let the wives club loose on you. :twisted:

As soon as I get the chance Mike I will head up your way so we can work on my set of arms. I may have to stay over the weekend of the 4th. I will let you know.

DeCalmont · Post by **DeCalmont** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:17 pm

Oh trust me, I most assuredly DO WANT this on mine. I really didn't want to have to shoot Iaen in the back of the head during the Ravine battle for not bringing this up earlier to you Mike! :twisted:

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:50 pm

iaenmor wrote:Hah, I knew all those trips up to your place would pay off. Looking good. JP if you don't get this on yours I am going to let the wives club loose on you.

As soon as I get the chance Mike I will head up your way so we can work on my set of arms. I may have to stay over the weekend of the 4th. I will let you know.

Okay sounds good!

JP.. cant ya just shoot him in the back of the head anyways????? lol

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:53 pm

The churburg #13 arms are done this way. They've got less lames though. Also they have 3 sliding rivits instead of two.

There's a pic that shows it in tomar

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:02 pm

Very nice looking and appears to function quite well also...

but who put that ding in the vam right next to the rivet on the second buckle??? :shock:

Someone needs a whupp'n!

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:12 pm

Mad Matt wrote:The churburg #13 arms are done this way. They've got less lames though. Also they have 3 sliding rivits instead of two.

There's a pic that shows it in tomar

What page??? I might as well make them period.
Thanks matt...

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:28 pm

Found it on 247...

Looks good, but the range looks to be only 3/4 inch or possibly 1 inch at the most. Thats inferior to the 2.5 - 3 inch range Im getting with these. I will go period right up until period meets inferior performance. I've always felt the shots we are required to throw in the sca require more freedom than period armor generally provides. I made these to help sca-ers better perform two important shots.

Im pleased to read that this is a period way of solving that problem. I knew I was just re-inventing the wheel on these.

DeCalmont · Post by **DeCalmont** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:28 am

Stonekeep Wrote

JP.. cant ya just shoot him in the back of the head anyways????? lol

I'm sure an "accidental discharge" could probably be arranged...I'll keep ya posted :twisted:

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:50 am

See, now thats the kinda thing that would make me wanna get into combat archery (if I still could)... not just shooting Iean, but making sure I was on the same side as Iean, walking behind him accidentally misfiring my crossbow at his head every few minutes... bahahahaa

Man... that sounds like fun...

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:34 am

Hey Mike. There are so few surviving 14th c pieces and there was so much innovation during that period. A 2 rivit rotating vambrace is completly plausable in my opinion. Just thought you'd like to have the reference material to back them up.

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:35 am

Now I know why I don't have any enemies. I've got friends like this.

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:26 am

Mad Matt wrote:Hey Mike. There are so few surviving 14th c pieces and there was so much innovation during that period. A 2 rivit rotating vambrace is completly plausable in my opinion. Just thought you'd like to have the reference material to back them up.

Oh definitely!!!.. Plus I will take that exact reference you gave me and use it in my Doc for a&s when i make my arms for it. BUT on those, since there is that historical reference, I would go with three and try to make it more like the picture. I bookmarked the page so i can refer back to it later when i make the arms.

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:28 am

iaenmor wrote:Now I know why I don't have any enemies. I've got friends like this.

Well, Id use the blunt tipped arrows! lol

Glaukos the Athenian · Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:57 pm

Far be it from me to add wood to the fire, but a XV century, pointed "floating" arm is naturally free to rotate

My "Frankenstein" arms with Gothic elbows and plain van and rarebraces from Troll Aux Pouces give me 100% anatomically correct motion. The limits set by my arm's flexibility, not the armor. And are fully documentable to the 1470s-80s

Maybe one day I'll be able to ship Mike a large enough amount of Mead to convince him to try "that pattern" one more time.

Rowan

Stonekeep wrote:
Mad Matt wrote:Hey Mike. There are so few surviving 14th c pieces and there was so much innovation during that period. A 2 rivit rotating vambrace is completly plausable in my opinion. Just thought you'd like to have the reference material to back them up.

Oh definitely!!!.. Plus I will take that exact reference you gave me and use it in my Doc for a&s when i make my arms for it. BUT on those, since there is that historical reference, I would go with three and try to make it more like the picture. I bookmarked the page so i can refer back to it later when i make the arms.

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:28 pm

Thats extremely doubtful..lol

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:19 pm

Just curious. Back when I bought the elbow cops from you, you said that when you got back to being able to pound steel you could make me a pair of ultra-low profile elbows. Would it be possible to do some rotating vambrace arms with low profile fanless cops for some uber-flexible uber-stealth crunchy metal arms?

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:16 pm

You mean like this???

<img src="http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/spiers-saddlery_1940_26402418">

This is our new 7 piece articulation, with rotating vambraces, for archers. Hasnt hit the website yet...

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:27 pm

That would be a yep. What's the base price on those?

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:47 pm

7 piece will be 10 more in steel than 5 piece. In SS about $15 more.

rotating vambraces are temporarily free of charge so I can get feedback on them and get good at making them.

I answered you in that other post about the same thing, but I ddint want people reading this one to think i was ignoring you..lol

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:48 pm

WOW Stonekeep, this inspire me to begin working SCA Manica for my arms, Great articulation...

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:36 pm

never heard of a manica, but John said its Roman and was gonna send me a pic so I wouldnt be lost..lol

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:40 pm

I'm just waiting for that time in the not too distant future when you announce the Stonekeep finger gauntlets.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:44 pm

Stonekeep wrote:never heard of a manica, but John said its Roman and was gonna send me a pic so I wouldnt be lost..lol

Here is a nice one in use: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?id=7940

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:51 pm

Ingvarr wrote:I'm just waiting for that time in the not too distant future when you announce the Stonekeep finger gauntlets.

Who leaked out that info????
I know of only three people that even know...

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:53 pm

That guy is my idol. His kit is just awesome.... :shock:

Ingvarr · Post by **Ingvarr** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:55 pm

Stonekeep wrote:
Ingvarr wrote:I'm just waiting for that time in the not too distant future when you announce the Stonekeep finger gauntlets.

Who leaked out that info????
I know of only three people that even know...

It was just a combination of wishful thinking and extrapolation of your expanding and improving product line. You're note quite confirmation makes me happy though.

Stonekeep · Post by **Stonekeep** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:57 pm

Maelgwyn wrote:
Stonekeep wrote:never heard of a manica, but John said its Roman and was gonna send me a pic so I wouldnt be lost..lol

Here is a nice one in use: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?id=7940

Hard to see how it all fits together from that pic, but it looks really nice. I could see us making the arms and legs.

Valley of the Fir Trees · Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:11 pm

Ingvarr wrote:
I'm just waiting for that time in the not too distant future when you announce the Stonekeep finger gauntlets.

Who leaked out that info????
I know of only three people that even know...

Mike...Put me first on the list!