Town Guards

Cannonshots · Post by **Cannonshots** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:18 am

Howdy.......I was reading the post about 'Bounty hunters' and it got me thinking about the formalisation of the Town Guards. I guess they were Volunteers / Militia . I know I am speaking very broadly here and so I dont expext specific answers. I am interrested in finding out when the position of 'Town Guard' became formal in Europe during the middle ages. By formal I mean recognised as a proper position and not just "who's turn is it to keep watch tonight ?" I see that theres a "Town Guard's "sword reproduced for sale. I know that the men in this position used to live in the city gates Guards quarters. I'm asking because I cant find anything much myself. Im also interrested in any special uniform, duties, patch or weapons that distinguished their position as the towns guards, again speaking very broadly.
Thanks for your input.
Cheers.

Thomas Powers · Post by **Thomas Powers** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:53 am

Yes, No and Maybe! Too broad, where, when and what exactly do you mean by "Town Guard".

The night watch could be anything from a single night watchman usually hired to look out for fires to a large group rotated through the important guilds in a city---cf Rembrants "The Night Watch"

Thomas

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:25 pm

IIRC, Rembrandt's painting of The Company of Frans Banning Cocq and Willem van Ruytenburch was more recently called The Night Watch until it was cleaned and restored and it became apparent that the scene depicted was in normal daylight---not shadow. Interesting, eh?

Cheers,
Tim

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:12 pm

Your in luck. The city of london as well as a few others have detailed accounts on how this works. In London each gate had two watchmen at night both with torches. To keep the peace at night was a small select company of 'good men' who were chosen and organised and lead (in theory) by an alderman. In cases of big emergencies the alderman of each of his areas would rase his ward and they would all arm adn assemble.

In War time this become even more of an issue and it depends on the time period. London swiches from ward(parishes) to guild centered defence then back to wards. In this emergency mode each ward has its area it had to defend, usually the sections of walls between gates and towers. Some towers/gates had specially selected me to guard them in war and it seems to use the siege equipment- maybe they did not want Will the smith to play around with a weapon he was unaccustomed with? London had between 15-20 of these large springalds and some catapults, later in the 14th they incorporate early firearms. Earlier in the 14th they own a few guns but it seems for the novelty more than anything as they are in a place far from the action.

Many towns I have looked into, York, Southampton and Norwich all had some defence plan and usually one for nonwartime as well.

Look into borrowing a copy of the memoranda and plea rolls of london and the calendar of letter books and it will be full of what you are looking for in regards to duties, pay, uniforms etc.

RPM

Neolith · Post by **Neolith** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:09 pm

Randal, about when did the system you desrcibe (aldermen/wards/gate guards...) evolve into being?

Just curious.

^ · Post by ^ » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:25 pm

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/journa ... #thread-21

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:50 am

I am a full time researcher right now and my topic is civic military organisation in the late middle ages so I spend alot of time with records between 1300-1500. Right now I am looking at 1300-1550 but that is to show thet henry VIII was not the first to build up fortifications to defend the coastal as often is described by early modernists....

The system in London was during the 14th. In York most of the records do not start till the end of the 14th so it would be hard to claim their system was in full use then but I find it harder to believe with how progrressed in the 15th it was they did not have something formal already. THe Parish and Wards had existed for hundreds of years before. Southampton has clear 14th century documentation of it in the early 14th in the Oak Books.

I suspect that in London and otherwise that the system runs back a long ways. At least in London there are accounts of them actively involved in military ventures in the 12th and 13th (London even is one of the places that often holds out during the pre norman invasions- and William circles around it at first not wanting to seige it). If they have companies of soldiers out and about they have a sufficient organisation to maintain its own walls I think. Something interesting about London is that the Men at Arms that rescue Richard II were Londoners in large part, the Mayor supposedly stricking Watt Tyler first. Froissart mentions that some of the Aldermen have their own Men at Arms which makes em wonder if these are not the watchmen and policing force of 'good men'?

RPM

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:58 am

You don't want to be a town guard....they suck, they can't even repel an Orc raiding party. Why else would the town be highering my Adventuring band..?? :shock:

Buran · Post by **Buran** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:15 pm

RandallMoffett wrote:I am a full time researcher right now and my topic is civic military organisation in the late middle ages so I spend alot of time with records between 1300-1500. Right now I am looking at 1300-1550 but that is to show thet henry VIII was not the first to build up fortifications to defend the coastal as often is described by early modernists....

Yeah, he just destroyed the records of those who came before.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:28 pm

Italian Condoterries were well armed and well trained.

Some were considered elite troops.

Neolith · Post by **Neolith** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:52 pm

Thanks for the insight, Randall.
Much appreciated.

Cannonshots · Post by **Cannonshots** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:52 pm

Yes, thanks Randall and everyone....... I suppose I am wondering the same thing now about "Bodyguards". I know that bodyguards have probably been around since they first guarded the head cave-dude but I am interrested as to the evidence of the earliest appearance of official distinguishing uniforms, weapons, badges, etc. Early uniformity amongst medieval armies is more prevalent than one might imagine. Most major towns seems to have had their own flag (at least in Europe) and mention is often made of a town's cloth-colour, badge, tabbard or symbol. With bodyguards, I know that Maximillian I's bodyguards had special glaives but I cant seem to find much reference on them or any other bodyguards for that matter which is understandable as there are so very many areas to research. So, to spell it out more clearly......what are the earliest visable signs we can find of European bodyguards having any special form of clothing, armour, badges or weapons that were different to any other members of the same Army ?
Anyone have anything to throw into the ring on this ?
Thanks !
_________________

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:37 am

In london it is clear they have uniforms in a way made up for the soldiers. In this:
Riley, H., Ed. Memorials of London and London Life in the XIII, XIV and XV centuries, being a series of Extracts from the Early Archives of the City of London, A.D. 1276- 1419. London, 1868. pages 189-190.

In this is a section clearly giving the colors and expensis for troop uniforms. In the register of the Black Prince this is done for his welsh troops. Every town leader had a uniform it seems here in Southampton but they fail to give colors but almost yearly have great expensis on fabric and sewing them.

As far as bodyguards... I have an idea that seems to make sense. An Alderman is a very powerful and wealthy man. In London they make large loans to nobels on a regular basis and when the nobles fail to pay these men can often pry money and other good from them legally. He likely has many welthy friends as well. This group typically owns the best armour they can get as is indicated from their inventories and the arms and armour requirements change with wealth from the king. They also tend to have many servants some many mmany of them. I figure it could be the arming of their friends and servants. You may not have bodyguards in a formal sense but your servants are always about you and the most wealth have a small arsenal ready for use in many towns and cities. It sadly will be impossible to tell. Most servants pay records fail to give great detail of the jobs they do if they are usual workers in a household. It would be interesting. The line of their men at arms come from the 1381 peasant revolt retold by Froissart.

Glad I could help!

RPM

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:44 am

in some towns citizens were expected to take up watch duties, Southampton IIRC lists a fine for a woman who failed to turn up for her stint. 15thc.

different towns/cities will have different customs/laws/practices.

Bertus Brokamp · Post by **Bertus Brokamp** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:13 am

When looking at the 14th c. accounts (1336-1393) of the hansa city of Deventer (nowadays in the Netherlands, then the HRE) I can say that yes, the city's archers (probably crossbowmen) were issued cloth each year, or every other year, to make uniforms out of bÃºt the colour of the cloth is also mentioned and this changes every issue. So they were not dressed in the city's colours but would have looked uniformly dressed any given year.

Town Guards

Town Guards

Town Guards & Bodyguards.