OK, so I'm making this person a rig

[freiman the minstrel]

Guys,

A friend's son is going to be 16 next month, and he is about to leave the country. As a combination happy birthday/going away present, I am putting together a basic SCA newbie rig. For those who might be interested, they are moving to Alabama.

There are two problems. First, I am not an armorer. I am a long time fighter who spent a lot of time with absolutely zero cash. Second, an SCA newbie rig is a lot different now than it was seventeen years ago.

I have a linen tabard style gambeson that I will be sticking on him, because I think that it will fit him, and it will never fit on me. He's getting a second hand spun dome that I inherited when my buddy Bob bought a new rig with his "downrange money". It's getting a shot of primer and some black paint.

Tonight's project is converting a couple of left over bits into a set of SCA legs.

The cuisses are left over leather cuisses cut out of my leather by a friend of mine and left in my shop a couple of months ago. They will be getting black leather dye.



The knee copps have been sitting in the shop even longer. They are really ugly, but (thankfully) they are concealable. They are painted primer grey on the inside and black on the outside. They will not be getting any more planishing. They were made from legally obtained sign metal about two years ago.



So, I guess I am asking for advice. Please don't be worried about being too basic. I don't mind stuff like "Attach the knee copps with rivets" or "there need to be two straps around the thigh above the knee, and one below."

"you're an idiot, freiman" might be accurate, but contains little useful information.

I want the boy to have a serviceable, useful rig when he leaves, and I have about two weeks to throw something together.

(sorry about the pics, I had to shoot them with a camera phone)

f

[schreiber]

Bavaria to Alabama? Bit of a change....

Some tips I'd offer, in no particular order....

-Stay away from sports padding and encourage him to do likewise unless he's in a complete bind. My kit has gone through steady changes over the years, but the one that made the biggest difference was getting out of sports padding. We as a group encourage using it, and we shouldn't.

-Floating articulations. How to do this right is outside the scope of a simple tip. It's going to require some research, but if they're done right they work well and he won't want to part with them. Elbows are easier than knees, IMO.

-I always make vambraces, cuisses, etc., much too large the first time. This is, of course, better than making them to small, but it's important to remember that having 1" of flesh exposed in certain relatively unexposed places is probably pretty safe.

-Use posterboard or something like it to make customized patterns for leather armor. Tape it to him and have him take stance, bend, run, etc. Trim it down where the paper bends.

-Don't make anything where the flesh side of leather is contacting his skin. That's probably the best way to lose a new fighter.

-Hands. If you can swing getting him some decent hands, it goes a lot farther toward keeping him in the game. A talented zweihander is more likely to stay in it than a crappy shieldman.

-Make sure he knows to try some non-spuntop helmets in the near future. Heads are cross-sectionally an oval shape. Spuntops are round. That's never really comfortable.

-Most of all, teach him to fish. In 17 years you've probably picked up a couple things about putting armor together that he doesn't know. Don't just give him the stuff, make sure he's involved with putting it together.

-Along those lines, make sure he knows that there isn't much out there in the way of armor that isn't going to require regular maintenance while he's in Alabama!

[brookswift]

since i'm doing this for a friend too...

-make sure he has either a leg belt or a pourpoint type item to support his legs (if you use a belt, try and make it more like a c-belt, which follows the curve of the hips instead of being just strait. make sure it's wide enough to distribute weight too).

-either put padding directly inside of the knee cops or use some sort of knee pad worn underneath (for hidden armor, you can get the slip on knee pads and attach the cop to the outside)

-you're going to want to make him vambraces. forarms are fragile. i'd suggest maybe using more of your signs in splints, but roll the edges to make them more rigid.

-what are you using for elbow cops? i'd personally suggest against street sign for those, as aluminium transfers more force than steel to the body in my experience (i use stop/yield sign breast/back/faulds). cheap elbow cops aren't that hard to come by.

-if he's not going to have demi-greaves, i'd suggest some sort of greave to protect that spot right under the knee which does get hit occasionally and hurts like hell when it does.

-what kind of helm are you going for? i still fight with my spuntop (because my new awesome helmet still needs strapping work) and it works just fine, but it is HUGE (in order to fit, i have 1inch of padding in some places).

-gorget should be simple. hardened/reinforced collar with hanging plates in front and back for cervical vertabrae and that soft spot above your clavicles.

-if he's not fighting sword and board, i suggest highly shoulder protection. a simple spoon shape aliette type thing is all you really need (it's those shots to the point of the shoulder that break people).

-what are you doing for body armor? a simple brig's probably the easiest. just cut out square plates and rivet them to thin leather/heavy linen/canvas.

-hands can be complicated to make yourself. some of the simpler demi-gaunts can be hand made by reinforcing heavy leather with plates (look at some of stonekeeps gauntlets to see what i mean), but if he's not doing sword and board, he needs full gauntlets, probably mitten gauntlets. someone on the board here has em for $100.

i think that's about it. like others have said, make paper/cardboard templates first to make sure that the sizes are correct and don't get into the way of his basic movements.

[Neolith]

What part of Alabama are your friends moving to?
Lots of good groups down here.

[Murdock]

I hope he's moving to B'ham

They could use more fighters.

[freiman the minstrel]

I am a little unsure. They are moving to an army base.

Mom is a heavy who participates as her schedule permits.

Dad is a fencer who thinks heavy would be fun. He is remarkable as fencers go in that he never, ever misses practice.

The son is about to turn 16.

I ran into a problem with the legs as the leather I have for straps isn't really suitable. It is kind of a stretchy garment leather. Gotta go get some more leather for straps before I continue.

f

[Sebastian K]

Send me a PM with your needs and your address, I shall mail you some stuff for straps and whatever else you need.

[RandallMoffett]

I wish I were closer and had some free time. I could make up some elbow cops and cut out splints pretty easy but will be out for the next month on some business and some time out to get some air.

I would recommend making the spun to have a peaked front visor or something. Think great helm for example. They look less bulbous. I actually cut one huge one up and welded it (you could rivet a strp in I suppose as well) and make it less round. If you do a type of sugar loaf it might work out ok. Do not know how daring you are but a guy I knew in the SCA got one of those fugly spangen full helmets that were all over but it was totally round. We used a car jack and bent it from round to oval and it fit much nicer. PErhaps an option. Might be possible to put it in a large vice or to bend it with body weigth to a more oval shape as well?

I would go with splints for simplicity. COP's are nice and provde good protection. You can use heavy canvas layers and waterproof them if you really want to go all out to help it last longer. Here in the UK they have a million and one types of waterproofing and rust provention.... I do not wonder why either...

As far as leather. I have a hard time finding it anywhere. That and some tools. I really miss H.F. I can buy a nice 2 dollar hammer and grind a new face on it and boom, nice raising hammer.

RPM

[schreiber]

Regarding not having leather for straps,
Nobody ever does this in the presence of real leather, but nylon webbing makes excellent straps. I don't know whether I'd put a buckle tongue through it randomly on a regular basis, but rivets will stay just fine.

It'll pay off especially in AL if you're doing floating elbows & knees, or anywhere else that's not likely to be paid attention to, since it won't rot like leather.

Remember to cut it with a hot knife or singe the edges. Also try to put it in places not really visible.

[Murdock]

There are LOTS of bases in the south

The only Base i can think of still active in Al is Rucker whish is up near DOthan i think.

Then there is Anniston Army depot and Redstone.....

there are no experimental weapons at Redstone...really we swear.

[freiman the minstrel]

OK, guys, here's a status report.

The young man's mom told him about his gift, so the surprise is ruined, but the fittings are easier. I can also tap the boy for things like basic strap setting.

We spent a day putting the legs together, and fitting the tabard style gambeson. The gambeson is faced with a pretty linen. I didn't make it. Every time I see it I think "What a waste of great linen. Would it have been tough to make a more correct pattern?"

Since the fellow fences, he already has a gorget. I have looked at it, and it's better than mine. I have an old kite sheild (war sized) that I think he is going to get side strapped. I also found a decent set of half gaunts, that might end up being a set of gaunts, if I can find a simple thumb pattern. Added to the spun dome top, we are getting closer to a full suit of newbie gear.

I haven't decided yet whether or not he's getting a CoP (plastic plates) or a belly barrel. Since it's Meridies, I figure he could do well with either. I started in Meridies with a belly barrel years and years ago.

Next on the docket are vanbraces and elbows. Probably made out of leather with concealed plastic splints and sign metal basic copps.

And they are moving to Ft Rucker. Dad (Dave) is a gem. He's a fencer who wants to fight heavy too, if it doesn't get in the way of his fencing. He is the first fencer I have ever met who never misses a practice. All the guys at the local heavy practice have suited up with fencing gear at one time or another to fence with him because it's tough for him to find opponents. The son fences, but wants to fight heavy, hence the heavy rig. Mom is a kitted and authorized heavy who doesn't have a lot of time for practices.

The youngest kid is a girl too young for training, but if they do boffers in Meridies, she has a good attitude for such things.

Thanks for the advice. I will post pics if anybody wants them.

f

[Aidan Cambel]

Ft. Rucker is going to be a tough place to play sca with Meridies I think. There isn't a local group in Dothan that I know of, and thats the closest city. I think the next closest will be across the Georgia line into Albany. But within a few hours reach he'll have Montgomery - wonderful group, Mobile - wonderful group, Pensacola - wonderful group. Birmingham will be a bit of a longer trek.

I hope he's moving to B'ham

They could use more fighters.

From what I hear, the practices here have grown considerably lately. I am still trying to get all of my armour legal with the recent enforcement of padding rules. Hopefully this weekend I will get to go and find out. Although I also heard that most of the new fighters would be in Mobile making armour with (our) Sir Logan. So I am not sure if anyone will be there or not.

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

While he is 16 in Meridies, he plays with Heavy Fighters, armours to our standards, but MUST have forearm and cuisses. Those are the rules for the YC combat he is in. Forget exactly if he has to have someone special authorize him, or if a KM can as well.

[Raeven]

From what I hear, the practices here have grown considerably lately. I am still trying to get all of my armour legal with the recent enforcement of padding rules. Hopefully this weekend I will get to go and find out. Although I also heard that most of the new fighters would be in Mobile making armour with (our) Sir Logan. So I am not sure if anyone will be there or not.

So far as we have been able to discover, everyone in the Ft. Rucker area and Dothan travel across to Bainbridge, GA (Flintmarsh) which is only an hour to hour fifteen away from Rucker and Ozark. Large active group. Already big and growing group of Heavy fighters and a full armory available for peoples use.

This is Mike's work that he has helped the shire do in his shop.

http://moulton-metal.livejournal.com/

[freiman the minstrel]

From what I hear, the practices here have grown considerably lately. I am still trying to get all of my armour legal with the recent enforcement of padding rules. Hopefully this weekend I will get to go and find out. Although I also heard that most of the new fighters would be in Mobile making armour with (our) Sir Logan. So I am not sure if anyone will be there or not.

So far as we have been able to discover, everyone in the Ft. Rucker area and Dothan travel across to Bainbridge, GA (Flintmarsh) which is only an hour to hour fifteen away from Rucker and Ozark. Large active group. Already big and growing group of Heavy fighters and a full armory available for peoples use.

This is Mike's work that he has helped the shire do in his shop.

http://moulton-metal.livejournal.com/

That looks great. It's much better (by quite a considerable bit) than anything that I have ever done. The stuff I am making is considerably less cool than that.

But what you wrote makes me ask the question, How many folks in the Ft. Rucker area make that trip?

The truth is, I was secretly hoping that they would hook up with Sir Lex, as he is probably the only person in that area who would still have the foggiest idea who I was. If he is even still there.

f

[robyn]

They move to alabama? What a shame.....

They were good folks to have around here.... Tell me when you can use my help. I could come over friday before the party....

Man I REALLY like those folks. Is there no way to make them stay?

*grummel*

Rob

[Murdock]

"From what I hear, the practices here have grown considerably lately. I am still trying to get all of my armour legal with the recent enforcement of padding rules. "

Yeah there were 4 total newbs when i left

1 that just authed

Sir Barok was coming back, Plus Eric and Kai and a couple of other occasionals.

I think there were maybe 4 guys simi regularly showing up the last 6-8 weeks i was there.

I think 2 of em came to Gulf.