My first reproduction

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:54 am

Hello.

As to the bristle business and substitutes thereof- there actually are pitch (or wax?) treted threads available. They come in lengths of about 20" and have a bit of nylon fishing line stuff serving as faux britles for just this purpose.

CanÂ´t name you any sources, though, for the only leather goods supplier in town has closed down, an IÂ´m sitting on the other side of the pond.

Regards

Ivo

mephit · Post by **mephit** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:04 pm

Hey Cat. One of the reasons your holes may be tearing out is because you're using glovers' needles. I used to as well and tore out holes right and left. They're sharpened on the point and edges to cut through the leather. This is not what you want for a good strong stitch. Use a round awl (called a scratch or prick awl). Diamond awls have the same problem as glovers' needles. both cut the leather apart rather than spreading the fibers the way a round awl will. I prefer straight awls. I have a curved one, but it's very hard to get an accurate hole angle, and it's harder to push through the leather since you can't push in a straight line. Polish the awl sharp regularly using something like 2400 grit sandpaper and cere it with beeswax regularly during use. Once you have the holes, use either a dull harness needle or a bristle to stitch. Don't use sharps or glovers' needles as they will tear out the hole or the thread if they catch. This should make the round closing (also called edge-flesh) stitch much easier and more durable.

Jiri Klepac · Post by **Jiri Klepac** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:13 pm

hello Cat,

Congratulations, looks nice and durable too. Fine work and also fresh air here after all the steel:-)

Jiri

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:04 pm

That is very, very nice!

Haven't seen Bob this worked up over a reproduction in a long time. I think you have gotten yourself onto a very short and elite list of "craftspeople who make Chef very happy":

Robert MacPherson
Patrick Thaden
Cat

Did I miss any, Bob?

Keep up the good work. You should hook up with Dan Houchins (Uilleag, sp?) when he gets back to the states. I am sure you two could talk period leatherworking for hours and learn much from each other.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:11 pm

Thank you very much! I appreciate all of the very kind comments I have gotten!

I am very excited about these as well. I've made stuff from many different mediums, and could never decide which way I wanted to go. I can tell you that now I REALLY feel a sense of purpose, and it's exciting to say the least. I NEVER would have guessed that I would finally find a definite direction I wanted to go in.

Thanks again everyone!
Cat

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:35 pm

Brian W. Rainey wrote:That is very, very nice!

Haven't seen Bob this worked up over a reproduction in a long time. I think you have gotten yourself onto a very short and elite list of "craftspeople who make Chef very happy":

Robert MacPherson
Patrick Thaden
Cat

Did I miss any, Bob?

Keep up the good work. You should hook up with Dan Houchins (Uilleag, sp?) when he gets back to the states. I am sure you two could talk period leatherworking for hours and learn much from each other.

Aaron Schnatterly, Erik D. Schmid, Per Lillund Jensen, Jiri Klepac, Jiri Lucius, Ralph Snell - all either working with, or hope to work with in future. That Belgian fellow, as well, who just made that jousting harness would be a fellow I must get in contact with at some time.

If I have nothing else, I hope it is good taste, and an eye for fine craftsmanship.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:38 pm

chef de chambre wrote:If I have nothing else, I hope it is good taste, and an eye for fine craftsmanship.

Without a doubt, my friend. Without a doubt.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:16 pm

You did a fine job Cat! Excellent reproduction. :shock:

Thats the type of item that I think would be in high demand. I believe you have found your calling.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:38 pm

Otto von Teich wrote:You did a fine job Cat! Excellent reproduction. Thats the type of item that I think would be in high demand. I believe you have found your calling.

And cash cow! :twisted:

If I did reenactment I would be on your waiting list!

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:56 pm

Kilkenny wrote:Cat, you're truly amazing. Yet another great piece.

Maeryk, good advice with the hog bristle... I bet one could substitute a piece of monofilament nylon fishing line in the event hog bristles were unavailable.

Please comment on how that works out, if you get a chance. Prepared natural hog bristles are hard to find commercially these days. I'm hoarding a few dozen. They are a bit tedious to wax up on thread too. :oops:

Steel wire "bristles" are still available in both straight and twisted versions for handwork in the shoe trade.

Oh yeah, nice job there Cat! Especially since you're working without proper tools for the job.

A fine straight awl and a slim curved one, as well as blunt harness needles will make this type of work less frustrating. Glove needles are better for soft garment and glove leathers.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:10 am

Kel Rekuta wrote:
Kilkenny wrote:Cat, you're truly amazing. Yet another great piece.

Maeryk, good advice with the hog bristle... I bet one could substitute a piece of monofilament nylon fishing line in the event hog bristles were unavailable.

Please comment on how that works out, if you get a chance. Prepared natural hog bristles are hard to find commercially these days. I'm hoarding a few dozen. They are a bit tedious to wax up on thread too. Steel wire "bristles" are still available in both straight and twisted versions for handwork in the shoe trade.

Oh yeah, nice job there Cat! Especially since you're working without proper tools for the job. A fine straight awl and a slim curved one, as well as blunt harness needles will make this type of work less frustrating. Glove needles are better for soft garment and glove leathers.

See.. what you need, is a pig, a need for bristles, and a fifth of rum...

Glovers needles are for pulling the seams on the back of gloves to tighten the palms. They are for garment weight leather.

And they are for jamming 1/4 inch under your finger nail while stitching.

Get a good, thin round awl. A cheap one. Practice sharpening it and punching with it. Make _anything_. Practice all the stitches you can imagine. Sharpen, sharpen, stitch stitch.

Once you know how to do it, get a good GOOD round awl.. but don't "learn" on a project, learn on scrap. Learning on a project, especially one for money, will leave you frustrated, dejected, and broke.

(THis also applies to lathe chisels, regular chisels, plane irons, anything that takes a knack to sharpen)

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:31 am

Using a diamond section stab awl, which seems particularly suited to opening stitch holes in heavyweight leathers rather than the thin stuff, calls for punching with the edges angled at 45 degrees to the stitch line, so as not to tear the leather on the dotted line. Leaves a visible trace of its use in the final product, btw. You can still see the shape of the holes afterwards.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:36 am

chef de chambre wrote:Some things I am researching in the way of cuirbolli objects are-

Documents cases/courier cases, penners, caskets, cup cases (for carefully moving expensive glass cups, or other expensive drinking vessels from one household to another), reliquary cases, cases of knives, and anything else I can manage to find made of the stuff.

You can find links to cases for a lot of different sorts of things at http://larsdatter.com/cases.htm -- the leather caskets are at http://larsdatter.com/boxes-leather.htm

I haven't found any extant penners (yet) but there's some very detailed illustrations at http://www.larsdatter.com/scribaltools.htm (I like the texture of this one, but this one, this one, and this one seem to be clearer on the general construction).

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:59 am

Those cylindrical ones look an awful lot like the document cases. These are something I can certainly do, and am getting excited all over again!

Once I get some research done, I will add a "penner" page to my site.

WoooHooo! Thanks Karen!
Cat

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:41 pm

I'm amused Cat, I actually had you copy the case for the Wiener Musterbuch... :lol:

at any rate, under Karen's first link, you can see a couple of projects I would definitely like to schedule in before the year is out - the folding spoon case, and the glass beaker case (I have two that need tracvel cases) - that is alongside the courrier's case we will have you make for the company.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:53 pm

Ya, I was thinking "Wow, they had hotdogs back then - AND they had cases for them?"

(JK)

I can give those other cases a try. They will be a good bit trickier than the others, though. As for the really long document case, I'm still trying to figure out how I'm gonna reach the stitching at the bottom.

For the smaller document case I made, I used really long needle nose pliers to get the needle up through the hole. I'm beginning to wonder if the bottom was sewn in place before the back is stitched up, and before the piece is formed. I will have to play around with that some.

I'm a bit booked at the moment (overbooked, actually), but hope to have some openings in a few weeks.

Thanks!
Cat

Aaron Schnatterly · Post by **Aaron Schnatterly** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:02 pm

I looked at a few of those projects that Cat is getting all worked up about. There will be some nice, nice additions to a lot of people's kits here over the next few months. Personally, I can hardly wait to see more of her efforts in bringing these day-to-day items (or is it treasures) back to light - an area of historical interpretation and recreation that has been back-seated or ignored until recently. It really impresses me that people are taking things to this level.

Cat wrote:Ya, I was thinking "Wow, they had hotdogs back then - AND they had cases for them?" Smile (JK)

Not to derail the thread at all, but...

chef de chambre wrote:
Brian W. Rainey wrote:I think you have gotten yourself onto a very short and elite list of "craftspeople who make Chef very happy":

Robert MacPherson
Patrick Thaden
Cat

Did I miss any, Bob?

Aaron Schnatterly, Erik D. Schmid, Per Lillund Jensen, Jiri Klepac, Jiri Lucius, Ralph Snell - all either working with, or hope to work with in future. That Belgian fellow, as well, who just made that jousting harness would be a fellow I must get in contact with at some time.

... I'm not quite sure what to say here... You just named some of the most mind-blowing artisans I've seen... heck of a compliment. Thank you.

justus · Post by **justus** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:06 pm

Excellent case work!

-Justus

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:08 pm

LOL!

Thanks, but I think the results will vary on a case by case basis. :lol:

Cat

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:16 pm

You will be happy to know I found a bunch of cuirbolli objects that I will have Jenn scan for you - a book box, a stoneware jug covered in cuirbolli, just to name two types I haven't seen before...

Aaron Schnatterly · Post by **Aaron Schnatterly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:44 pm

chef de chambre wrote:... a stoneware jug covered in cuirbolli...

Seen pics of those before... aside from being really neat, what came to mind was...

Medieval precursor to the Thermos.

I'd think it would have some insulating properties, as well as being artistic.

Cat · Post by **Cat** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:19 pm

[quote="Aaron Schnatterly
I'd think it would have some insulating properties, as well as being artistic.[/quote]

And a pain in the butt to pattern.

Chef, I would LOVE to see more pics! As soon as I get some time, I have several prototypes I wanna make. Pics ALWAYS make that easier.

Cat