...And I'll I'm saying is that $35 is a lot of money to someone who is homeless.
Last time that he posted on this archive, remember, he was still living out of the closet in the new workshop he was renting in order to try and catch up on back orders and get back on his feet. No computer, no phone, no internet access.
Now, maybe things have changed. It's been a few months, after all. Personally, I *hope* that he's doing better. I'd be ecstatic to hear that the reason that he's late on a few orders is only that he's just been lazy lately, and everything'll be sent out in short order.
I'd be annoyed with him, but also ecstatic that he's back on his feet.
He ran the business successfully for 11 years without ever getting a reputation for late orders. Year 12, everything fell apart.
I *know* that there are a lot of armourers out there with false sob stories, and I *know* that there are a lot of poor businessmen out there who start armouries when they shouldn't. And yes, Brand really *needs* to make paying off his debts a priority and he *needs* to keep in better touch with the people he owes armor to. I agree with that.
Maybe I shouldn't be butting in on this, I've never met the man in person. I'm just getting annoyed at how uncharitable people are being towards someone who has already hit rock bottom. I know far too many good people who are in similar positions right now.
Anyways...Mr. Starling, good luck getting your armour. I am of the opinion that Mr. Lancaster will do everything in his power to eventually make good on his debts, based on what I've read of his character and my previous business dealings with him. And I'm done commenting in this thread.
Armor Store Rip off
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeffrey Hedgecock:
If money was really tight, we could have renewed for only 1 year at $35, but that would have been more expensive in the long term.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you don't see paying at least ten times the going rate for something as exorbitant?
If money was really tight, we could have renewed for only 1 year at $35, but that would have been more expensive in the long term.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you don't see paying at least ten times the going rate for something as exorbitant?
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Brian
- Archive Member
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: St. Louis, MO (Calontir)
- Contact:
---He ran the business successfully for 11 years without ever getting a reputation for late orders. Year 12, everything fell apart---
That's funny. where I am, they had a pretty poor reputation for later orders about five years ago. About the time I got my armour they changed their phone message to say "We've had some problems, but everything's fixed now" So I assume that it was not just me and my friends.
Brian
That's funny. where I am, they had a pretty poor reputation for later orders about five years ago. About the time I got my armour they changed their phone message to say "We've had some problems, but everything's fixed now" So I assume that it was not just me and my friends.
Brian
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeffrey Hedgecock:
<B>Sorry guys, I just renewed our name for 5, count 'em, 5 years.
.........and it cost a whopping 95 bucks!
If money was really tight, we could have renewed for only 1 year at $35, but that would have been more expensive in the long term.
But I think we want to stick around for a while.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have people forgotten how JT lost armourarchive.com? Just because you are trying to renew, doesn't mean they will let you, they may sell it to someone else anyway.
<B>Sorry guys, I just renewed our name for 5, count 'em, 5 years.
.........and it cost a whopping 95 bucks!
If money was really tight, we could have renewed for only 1 year at $35, but that would have been more expensive in the long term.
But I think we want to stick around for a while.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have people forgotten how JT lost armourarchive.com? Just because you are trying to renew, doesn't mean they will let you, they may sell it to someone else anyway.
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Knights' Crossing- Ramona CA USA
- Contact:
"Just because you are trying to renew, doesn't mean they will let you, they may sell it to someone else anyway. "
How do you figure?
I can understand it if you let the expiration date go by, but based on the number of renewal offers I've received about our domain name, I don't know HOW anyone could NOT know their name is imminently expiring.
And given that a domain name can constitute someone's livelihood, don't you think it's in their best interest to protect it, no matter what the cost????
------------------
Cheers,
Jeffrey Hedgecock,
Armourer, Historic Arms & Armour
http://www.historicenterprises.com
Maitre of The Red Company-1471
http://www.theredcompany-1471.org
[This message has been edited by Jeffrey Hedgecock (edited 02-25-2003).]
How do you figure?
I can understand it if you let the expiration date go by, but based on the number of renewal offers I've received about our domain name, I don't know HOW anyone could NOT know their name is imminently expiring.
And given that a domain name can constitute someone's livelihood, don't you think it's in their best interest to protect it, no matter what the cost????
------------------
Cheers,
Jeffrey Hedgecock,
Armourer, Historic Arms & Armour
http://www.historicenterprises.com
Maitre of The Red Company-1471
http://www.theredcompany-1471.org
[This message has been edited by Jeffrey Hedgecock (edited 02-25-2003).]
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Kobold Arms
- New Member
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Seattle Wa. USA
As far as 911 goes,a lot of armorers and other businesses went under due to lack of consumer confidence and buying what are basically luxury items.
I had problems staying afloat and keeping up with things myself,but am recovering now.
As long as you keep quality and customer satisfaction as you main goals,you really can't go worng,the rest is just about good planning and work-and putting in the hours.
As to low end armour-well I don't try to be Ashcraft/Baker and cater to doing a bunch of stuff that's poor quality and knocked out as fast as possible...........
You CAN mix a certain amount of off the shelf stuff and do custom,you have have to use a modular approach to make things fit right.
Helmet skulls can be made and on the shelf-you can have knee and elbow joints ready to go as well,straps and buckles,etc.........
I have these things in five sizes.
Then,when you get an order,you look at what is varying,and your turn around time is greatly reduced,most of the harder work is already done.
Other than that,a well organized and appointed shop will help a great deal.
Up to date powerful machinery,well situated.
Good lighting and ventilation.
And most importantly a good business plan with extimates based on shop hours, (includes laobor for yourself,helpers and averaged overhead costs)and materials costs.
I keep track of how long pieces take to make,then see what I can to do streamline the operations to save on time without losing in quality.
Sometime you have to eat a short term loss to do tooling to speed things up-but if the demand for an item justifies it,the long term benefit outwieghs it.
I think may who hand craft refuse to upgrade on the premise that time spent in r&d and material improvements in the production flow mean it takes time away from making things.
Which is really a penny wise and pound foolish idea.
I went to using hydralic presses and dies to make my gear over ten years ago.
Those we were in my field and stubbornly hand pounded everything because it was "authentic" are now crippled with cartilege and joint damage, and out of the business now.
I'm still chugging along after 22 years of this.
Do the math.
Respects,Sven
I had problems staying afloat and keeping up with things myself,but am recovering now.
As long as you keep quality and customer satisfaction as you main goals,you really can't go worng,the rest is just about good planning and work-and putting in the hours.
As to low end armour-well I don't try to be Ashcraft/Baker and cater to doing a bunch of stuff that's poor quality and knocked out as fast as possible...........
You CAN mix a certain amount of off the shelf stuff and do custom,you have have to use a modular approach to make things fit right.
Helmet skulls can be made and on the shelf-you can have knee and elbow joints ready to go as well,straps and buckles,etc.........
I have these things in five sizes.
Then,when you get an order,you look at what is varying,and your turn around time is greatly reduced,most of the harder work is already done.
Other than that,a well organized and appointed shop will help a great deal.
Up to date powerful machinery,well situated.
Good lighting and ventilation.
And most importantly a good business plan with extimates based on shop hours, (includes laobor for yourself,helpers and averaged overhead costs)and materials costs.
I keep track of how long pieces take to make,then see what I can to do streamline the operations to save on time without losing in quality.
Sometime you have to eat a short term loss to do tooling to speed things up-but if the demand for an item justifies it,the long term benefit outwieghs it.
I think may who hand craft refuse to upgrade on the premise that time spent in r&d and material improvements in the production flow mean it takes time away from making things.
Which is really a penny wise and pound foolish idea.
I went to using hydralic presses and dies to make my gear over ten years ago.
Those we were in my field and stubbornly hand pounded everything because it was "authentic" are now crippled with cartilege and joint damage, and out of the business now.
I'm still chugging along after 22 years of this.
Do the math.
Respects,Sven
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Wulfgar Davinsson
- Archive Member
- Posts: 627
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
Lay off the speculation...
Be pissed off if you have issues with the Armourstore, but don't use a public forum to rip him.
Is he negligent? Sounds like it. So address that issue, and don't try and figure out why,or drag his name through the mud by bringing up hearsay from "5 years ago"...
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
Be pissed off if you have issues with the Armourstore, but don't use a public forum to rip him.
Is he negligent? Sounds like it. So address that issue, and don't try and figure out why,or drag his name through the mud by bringing up hearsay from "5 years ago"...
------------------
<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
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chef de chambre
- Archive Member
- Posts: 28806
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Nashua, N.H. U.S.
- Contact:
Wulfgar -
This may be the only means of redress for the man to get either his money or armour. If he played it like a gentleman, it would NEVER have come to this pass - instead, he most probably was hoping the customer would just let things slide.
He dragged his name through the mud by allowing this to happen - not Christopher, he thus must value his reputation cheaply. If you are a friend of Brand Lancasters, perhaps he would be best served by letting him know of this problem, so he can rectify it, rather than telling the fellow who is out a grand to shut up.
In the past, the very few occassions any of our company have had a problem with an armourer, the problem was rectified professionaly on all sides, and not in public view - but then we deal with professionals. In the end - you get what you paid for, be it armour that looks good, or professionalisim on the armourers part. Most usually the two go hand-in-hand.
To my mind, this is a 'cautionary tale' for the wise, to go with an armourer who conducts his business in a professional manner, rather than trying to save a few bucks and go with a fly-by-night.
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Bob R.
This may be the only means of redress for the man to get either his money or armour. If he played it like a gentleman, it would NEVER have come to this pass - instead, he most probably was hoping the customer would just let things slide.
He dragged his name through the mud by allowing this to happen - not Christopher, he thus must value his reputation cheaply. If you are a friend of Brand Lancasters, perhaps he would be best served by letting him know of this problem, so he can rectify it, rather than telling the fellow who is out a grand to shut up.
In the past, the very few occassions any of our company have had a problem with an armourer, the problem was rectified professionaly on all sides, and not in public view - but then we deal with professionals. In the end - you get what you paid for, be it armour that looks good, or professionalisim on the armourers part. Most usually the two go hand-in-hand.
To my mind, this is a 'cautionary tale' for the wise, to go with an armourer who conducts his business in a professional manner, rather than trying to save a few bucks and go with a fly-by-night.
------------------
Bob R.
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Wulfgar Davinsson
- Archive Member
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- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
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SilverGriffon
- Archive Member
- Posts: 284
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- Location: Ohio
- Contact:
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
Wulfgar, I agree with you. Speculation and needless flaming are not why I started this post. If I had my way Brand and I would have settled this privetly. I was hoping this topic would draw his attention, and possible communication, working towards a solution beneficial to both parties. Alas I wait still. Chris
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Wulfgar Davinsson
- Archive Member
- Posts: 627
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
- Contact:
"I'm just getting annoyed at how uncharitable people are being towards someone who has already hit rock bottom. I know far too many good people who are in similar positions right now."
Business transactions have nothing to do with being charitable. Don't mix the message here. You pay for something you should be able to reasonably expect it to be delivered. Legally they are required to do so. Stock items by law are to be shipped and received by the customer within 30 days. By law, if you provide a customer that has provided a deposit or payment in full for a ship date and it is not sent then that customer is to be contacted and a revised ship date is to be agreed upon or refund in full is due immediately with no penalty to the customer.
I see nothing unreasonable about using a public forum to communicate issues that need to be resolved. We are a community of people here with similar interests and if we do not look out for each other, support each other, and encourage those that do not live up to their obligations to do so, then who is? This is a powerful forum and it clearly brings issues into the open for resolution. I have seen more issues resolved in this manner in the last six months in this forum using this board than I thought I would ever see. This forum certainly does capture someone's attention where private contact sometimes seems to be failing (as I have seen posted here with other suppliers and customers left without their product).
It truly is unfortunate to see someone hit bottom and I hope with all of my heart that he is able to pull out of it stronger than before, but it does not remove the frustration, anger, resentment and feelings of being taken advantage of. We are dealing with armour that is part of someone's dream. We are talking about something that brings hope, excitement and exhiliration into someone's life - some people have to save and dream and drool over these pieces for years before they can ever afford them - we aren't talking about buying a convenience item here, this is much bigger to the customer and has much emotion attached to it. You cannot take someone's dream down with you if you start to fall and think that they are uncharitable for pointing out the fact that they took a leap of faith on someone else's word that they would provide this dream to them on this date, for this price.
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Sterben mit Ehre
Business transactions have nothing to do with being charitable. Don't mix the message here. You pay for something you should be able to reasonably expect it to be delivered. Legally they are required to do so. Stock items by law are to be shipped and received by the customer within 30 days. By law, if you provide a customer that has provided a deposit or payment in full for a ship date and it is not sent then that customer is to be contacted and a revised ship date is to be agreed upon or refund in full is due immediately with no penalty to the customer.
I see nothing unreasonable about using a public forum to communicate issues that need to be resolved. We are a community of people here with similar interests and if we do not look out for each other, support each other, and encourage those that do not live up to their obligations to do so, then who is? This is a powerful forum and it clearly brings issues into the open for resolution. I have seen more issues resolved in this manner in the last six months in this forum using this board than I thought I would ever see. This forum certainly does capture someone's attention where private contact sometimes seems to be failing (as I have seen posted here with other suppliers and customers left without their product).
It truly is unfortunate to see someone hit bottom and I hope with all of my heart that he is able to pull out of it stronger than before, but it does not remove the frustration, anger, resentment and feelings of being taken advantage of. We are dealing with armour that is part of someone's dream. We are talking about something that brings hope, excitement and exhiliration into someone's life - some people have to save and dream and drool over these pieces for years before they can ever afford them - we aren't talking about buying a convenience item here, this is much bigger to the customer and has much emotion attached to it. You cannot take someone's dream down with you if you start to fall and think that they are uncharitable for pointing out the fact that they took a leap of faith on someone else's word that they would provide this dream to them on this date, for this price.
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Sterben mit Ehre
-
chef de chambre
- Archive Member
- Posts: 28806
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Nashua, N.H. U.S.
- Contact:
....To give perspective, one should point out that $1,000 rip-offs consist of Grand Theft in all the States I am aware of, and is a *felony* - not a misdemeanor. If he mailked him a check through the postal service, he can legally have them go after him with a FEDERAL warrent for mail fraud.
Now, which is more kind? To try to force him to a dialouge? or to "keep it quiet", and go to the Feds? Were I out a grand, for so long, and without seeming chance for redress, I indeed would not be pursuing the matter here, but Brand wouldn't like my "quiet" option either.
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Bob R.
Now, which is more kind? To try to force him to a dialouge? or to "keep it quiet", and go to the Feds? Were I out a grand, for so long, and without seeming chance for redress, I indeed would not be pursuing the matter here, but Brand wouldn't like my "quiet" option either.
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Bob R.
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Pale Spyder
- Archive Member
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:01 am
- Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA
- Contact:
I have to make a statement. He is in to me for a shield or 80 bucks so I feel I have a small say. His problems are not MY problems. The least this guy could do is answer an email, or the phone. I sent him this money in January of 2002, if I do not have my shield by May I am going to file a lawsuit against his company for theft. I am tired of hearing excuses and having promise after promise broken. As I now know it takes a total of 30 minutes to make a shield there is no excuse. Am I a jerk for not being caring for anothers problems, probably, but, considering I am not the only one and that he has 20+ people on his "catchup list" I kinda don't care. My money or the shield Brand, no excuses. You have 2 months.
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Jason Lewis
Pale Spyder Designs
"To discipline the body is to feed the soul."
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Jason Lewis
Pale Spyder Designs
"To discipline the body is to feed the soul."
Frankly I'm GLAD you all are chiming in on your business problems with armourers. Sorry Wulfgar, but this forum is the BEST place for prospective armour buyers to read feedback on armourers. I Bought a helm from Brand several years ago and went through this same crap with him. My whole House bought armour from Alan Bauldry and and went through similar crap as has been posted on this site concerning his business. This forum is both a sounding board and a direct consumer feedback site for those who wish to do business in our hobby. Now, when my people want to buy armor, I send them here to read reviews of the armourers first. If an armourer is being unfairly represented let THEM respond...otherwise if the sabaton fits...
Blackcross
[This message has been edited by knyaz (edited 02-26-2003).]
Blackcross
[This message has been edited by knyaz (edited 02-26-2003).]
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T.G. Moore
- New Member
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Lexington, KY
-
white mountain armoury
- Archive Member
- Posts: 10538
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: the Taiga
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Christopher Starling:
Speculation and needless flaming are not why I started this post. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really haven't noticed any flaming (name calling, threats, etc) and it seems that everyone has been pretty civil in this thread.
I would be very upset with someone if I had been waiting for a year for armor, so I can relate. I try to be open minded and understanding -life does suck at times and it always gets worse when you think it can't. However a total lack of communication, and the iniability to meet several deadlines with a customer, WHILE STILL SELLING ARMOR TO OTHER PEOPLE is wrong!
I hope things get better for Brand, and I can relate to how orders can get far behind (I had my share of problems when I suddenly moved out of state), but things can only be allowed to go so far.
Just thought I would add some more personal opinions about this thread.
(^_^)
------------------
Hjalmar of Sognefjord
House Bearkiller
Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies.
"True nobility is not measured by being superior to another, but rather by becoming superior to oneself."
Speculation and needless flaming are not why I started this post. </font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really haven't noticed any flaming (name calling, threats, etc) and it seems that everyone has been pretty civil in this thread.
I would be very upset with someone if I had been waiting for a year for armor, so I can relate. I try to be open minded and understanding -life does suck at times and it always gets worse when you think it can't. However a total lack of communication, and the iniability to meet several deadlines with a customer, WHILE STILL SELLING ARMOR TO OTHER PEOPLE is wrong!
I hope things get better for Brand, and I can relate to how orders can get far behind (I had my share of problems when I suddenly moved out of state), but things can only be allowed to go so far.
Just thought I would add some more personal opinions about this thread.
(^_^)
------------------
Hjalmar of Sognefjord
House Bearkiller
Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies.
"True nobility is not measured by being superior to another, but rather by becoming superior to oneself."
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Mad Matt
- Archive Member
- Posts: 7697
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
- Contact:
Ya know I am kinda curious about something.
If business was so slow for armourstore after 9-11 then why does he have so many backorders?
Logic would dictate that with a decrease in the number of orders being recieved turnaround would be faster. And they'd have orders filled promptly and either have lots of time to produce stock or lots of time to twidle their thumbs on top of it all.
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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory
[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 02-26-2003).]
If business was so slow for armourstore after 9-11 then why does he have so many backorders?
Logic would dictate that with a decrease in the number of orders being recieved turnaround would be faster. And they'd have orders filled promptly and either have lots of time to produce stock or lots of time to twidle their thumbs on top of it all.
------------------
The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
Mad Matt's Armory
[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 02-26-2003).]
I just received an email from Brand today for you Chris - don't know how I got to be the lucky one to hear from him when you are clearly pleading but it sounds encouraging:
Copied from email today:
"I don't visit the archive any more really. I have so much to do that
it only serves as a distraction. Chris' order is the next one, but I'm
running on such low funds right now that I can barely get a piece
finished. My compressor blew up which really put a damper on my finish
work(hence the lack of mirror polish on your gear) and took my last bit
of cash to replace.
As far as the archive goes feel free to post anything you like, that is
the freedom of the internet afterall. Everyone has an opinion,
especially on armouring. The fact is I ran my biz very poorly towards
the end, especially since it cost me everything trying to keep it
alive. Now, 12 years later I am just as poor as when I first picked up
a hammer. A little wiser, but a lot more burned out I guess.
I hope your gear serves you well.
Brand"
I too had my order placed within days of Chris and I received my order in full yesterday. It is exactly to the "T" what he has pictured on his website as for sale and what I paid for. I was going to post some pictures of the armour, and when I went to his new website at SCAWorld.com there is no point, take the pictures from the website and that is exactly what he sent me.
Chris, Hang in there buddy, I think that there is light at the end of the tunnel and you should see your armour soon. I know that he promised both of us our armour last month and he is still getting it out, but the point is, he is actually getting it out, he still has not updated his website showing my order due, I wonder how many orders he has actually filled from his back order list, maybe if he updated it occassionally people would see progress as orders are actually being cleared.
I want to publicly and openly announce a formal apology to Brand. I have called him a liar, a thief and a coward. And up until yesterday I believed every word that I said and want to admit that I was wrong. This will not be the last time you see me apologize to him as I told him and I am a man to my word with no exception that I would post public apologies for believing this about him. He has kept his word to make it right, not in my timeframe, not in the timeframe he has promised to Chris and I, but he has kept his word.
The communication (lack of) was the killer to believing he stole from me. Absolute silence for six months. Nothing, no website, no email, no telephone, no attempt to let me know that he was still alive, and I had no other choice than to believe the absolute worst than I can believe about a man - that he has no honour and no integrity and his WORD means nothing - I am sorry that I have had this belief about him, I truly do believe today that I was wrong and that he is true to his word and will make it right with everyone as he has said that he would and I hope that he gets back on his feet so that people will regain their confidence in him and will sing his praises as an example of someone that has made mistakes, admitted to them and has risen above it.
Chris you and I can talk offline if you wish as we have in the past, last time we talked I told you I needed a couple of weeks as I thought something was going to happen, either for bad or good and it ended up being good and I think you are to follow.
Troy DeFrates
------------------
Sterben mit Ehre
Copied from email today:
"I don't visit the archive any more really. I have so much to do that
it only serves as a distraction. Chris' order is the next one, but I'm
running on such low funds right now that I can barely get a piece
finished. My compressor blew up which really put a damper on my finish
work(hence the lack of mirror polish on your gear) and took my last bit
of cash to replace.
As far as the archive goes feel free to post anything you like, that is
the freedom of the internet afterall. Everyone has an opinion,
especially on armouring. The fact is I ran my biz very poorly towards
the end, especially since it cost me everything trying to keep it
alive. Now, 12 years later I am just as poor as when I first picked up
a hammer. A little wiser, but a lot more burned out I guess.
I hope your gear serves you well.
Brand"
I too had my order placed within days of Chris and I received my order in full yesterday. It is exactly to the "T" what he has pictured on his website as for sale and what I paid for. I was going to post some pictures of the armour, and when I went to his new website at SCAWorld.com there is no point, take the pictures from the website and that is exactly what he sent me.
Chris, Hang in there buddy, I think that there is light at the end of the tunnel and you should see your armour soon. I know that he promised both of us our armour last month and he is still getting it out, but the point is, he is actually getting it out, he still has not updated his website showing my order due, I wonder how many orders he has actually filled from his back order list, maybe if he updated it occassionally people would see progress as orders are actually being cleared.
I want to publicly and openly announce a formal apology to Brand. I have called him a liar, a thief and a coward. And up until yesterday I believed every word that I said and want to admit that I was wrong. This will not be the last time you see me apologize to him as I told him and I am a man to my word with no exception that I would post public apologies for believing this about him. He has kept his word to make it right, not in my timeframe, not in the timeframe he has promised to Chris and I, but he has kept his word.
The communication (lack of) was the killer to believing he stole from me. Absolute silence for six months. Nothing, no website, no email, no telephone, no attempt to let me know that he was still alive, and I had no other choice than to believe the absolute worst than I can believe about a man - that he has no honour and no integrity and his WORD means nothing - I am sorry that I have had this belief about him, I truly do believe today that I was wrong and that he is true to his word and will make it right with everyone as he has said that he would and I hope that he gets back on his feet so that people will regain their confidence in him and will sing his praises as an example of someone that has made mistakes, admitted to them and has risen above it.
Chris you and I can talk offline if you wish as we have in the past, last time we talked I told you I needed a couple of weeks as I thought something was going to happen, either for bad or good and it ended up being good and I think you are to follow.
Troy DeFrates
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Sterben mit Ehre
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
Troy, I am glad to hear that Brand has come through for you. I don't know why he sent a messege to me to you!?!? Oh well, at least it is some sort of attempt at communication. Here is what I don't understand---I have been very patient, I have always been willing to work towards a mutually beneficial solution-never have I been hard line, and yet Brand seems to be avoiding me. Oh well. Hey Troy, hope your kit serves you well-and that it looks good on you! Truly, Chris
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Laz
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Some place new all the time
[QUOTE]Originally posted by edward atte flynt:
[B]Sorry you're still fighting this battle Christopher. I finally was able to put some closure to my arms from Dragon Forge. I got them about a month ago. Hope you're fight produces similar results.
I was really happy with the helm I got from Dragon's Forge. It is a well made helm and it was ready early and was really nice of him to get it done with a discount.
But then that is just me. I guess not everyone has had a good time with them.
Lodinn
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Lord Lodinn Hrafnarrson
Lord of Hus des Silber Rings
Currently stuck on a viking that won't end
[B]Sorry you're still fighting this battle Christopher. I finally was able to put some closure to my arms from Dragon Forge. I got them about a month ago. Hope you're fight produces similar results.
I was really happy with the helm I got from Dragon's Forge. It is a well made helm and it was ready early and was really nice of him to get it done with a discount.
But then that is just me. I guess not everyone has had a good time with them.
Lodinn
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Lord Lodinn Hrafnarrson
Lord of Hus des Silber Rings
Currently stuck on a viking that won't end
While I still think that Mr. Lancaster is deserving of a fair bit of leeway, a bit of research found that the lack of communication is more damning than I thought.
There's a good FAQ on the legal responsibilities of any merchant who receives money over the mail at:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.htm
[This message has been edited by Jareth (edited 02-27-2003).]
There's a good FAQ on the legal responsibilities of any merchant who receives money over the mail at:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.htm
[This message has been edited by Jareth (edited 02-27-2003).]
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
I could not understand any of this situation either. The worst part of all of it was the non-communication. It only takes a few minutes to keep everyone posted. He used to post weekly updates on progress to his other website that I used as communication that kept me from emailing and calling him. The lack of communication had me to the point where had I not received my order when I did, I was literally 10 days away from filing charges. I too wanted the steel and not a hide, but I had finally mentally gone to the point where it was going to happen. (Hence, explanation to you Chris why I had asked for two more weeks before we started posting to the archive again.) I had already contacted legal assistance and they were going to assist me in the filing the criminal charges. I am SSOOOOOO glad that it did not come to that. I had felt pushed to the limit with multiple promised dates and then silence so many times that I felt I could no longer trust his Word, hence, the apology posted previously for having put a doubt about his honour into question. I do apologize for publicly speaking about Brand the way I have again. I was wrong, he does have every intention on keeping his promises.
Lesson learned. Communication, communication, communication...when you are in a tight spot, and need the benefit of the doubt you need to communicate twice as much with people like me as before because some of us such as myself do have the where-with-all and the financial resources to file criminal charges for sales terms violations. I am a professional buyer in my mundane life, and I take this very seriously and the charges are very serious not to be taken lightly. Willing to work with someone in a pinch, but you must must must communicate with them.
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Sterben mit Ehre
Lesson learned. Communication, communication, communication...when you are in a tight spot, and need the benefit of the doubt you need to communicate twice as much with people like me as before because some of us such as myself do have the where-with-all and the financial resources to file criminal charges for sales terms violations. I am a professional buyer in my mundane life, and I take this very seriously and the charges are very serious not to be taken lightly. Willing to work with someone in a pinch, but you must must must communicate with them.
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Sterben mit Ehre
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
I think that he had already partially worked on and completed some of both our orders and he had made promises for delivery back in January to both of us then I received another confirmation for a delivery early in Feb which had not shown up. It apparently got put on hold again while he was at Estrella War. I think that he might have had it finished already when I sent my final email indicating the I was filing mail fraud charges the first week in March. I don't think that this had any impact on him clearing the order any faster from a production standpoint, but I think that it made him ship it immediately as I made it very clear that I was done, kaput and finished being nice. I couldn't take the repeated promised ship dates anymore and go on believing that he was going to keep his Word. I am sure you can relate completely that it can drive you insane to come home week after month after a year looking at the driveway wondering if your beautiful new armour has shown up. I was pushed over the edge, figuring that if I was not going to get my armour then it would not matter if I filed charges as I wasn't going to get it anyway.
My biggest concern about filing the criminal charges was that it would ensure that nobody got their armour, not me nor anybody else, you can't make armour from a cell because he certainly wasn't - isn't in a position to pay the multi-thousands of dollars in fines and restitution payments to all of the customers. But, I was done mentally and it was coming, I am once again SSSSSOOOOOOOOO glad that it did not come to this and that he has finally kept his Word that it was coming and I did not create a situation that basically insured that you would not get your armour.
Keep your hopes up and work with him a while longer, I really do believe him when he says that your order is next.
I wish that he would post something to his website periodically for people like us because his lack of communication nearly created a very very bad situation for him.
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Sterben mit Ehre
My biggest concern about filing the criminal charges was that it would ensure that nobody got their armour, not me nor anybody else, you can't make armour from a cell because he certainly wasn't - isn't in a position to pay the multi-thousands of dollars in fines and restitution payments to all of the customers. But, I was done mentally and it was coming, I am once again SSSSSOOOOOOOOO glad that it did not come to this and that he has finally kept his Word that it was coming and I did not create a situation that basically insured that you would not get your armour.
Keep your hopes up and work with him a while longer, I really do believe him when he says that your order is next.
I wish that he would post something to his website periodically for people like us because his lack of communication nearly created a very very bad situation for him.
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Sterben mit Ehre
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
I would recommend that you do one of two things:
1) Go to a major event/war and buy off the rack.
2) Keep checking on the armour archive for reviews of armorers. This is a great way to painlessly get to know the business practices of a diverse bunch of artisans.
After reading good reviews of an armorer, I'd be still a little leery for your own good. If the armorer asks for money up front (and they often do), ask if they will take a check and NOT CASH it until the project is actually started and a finish date is guranteed.
Make plain what your intentions are, and the back-up plan if the delivery date is missed. If an armorer is serious, they will understand. I don't see any problem giving the armorer more time than they promise for your "guaranteed by" date. This shows that you are willing to wait for quality, but not indefinitely. Then, if the guaranteed by date is missed, you should have the option of a refund. Alternatively, you may ask for a discount of some sort if the armor is truly "almost done", and often the armorer will give you a break anyways for your patience.
Finally, make it plain up-front that you will post a review, good or bad, to the AA after your armor is received. All armorers like praise, and good reviews often lead to more commissions. In fact, if your SCA group has a e-list, you may also post a review to the list. This is best if the feedback is positive.
Any armor that you buy on eBay also has a forum for feedback. You can read that and get an idea of what his business practices are like.
Good Luck!
Armorers that *I* know to have honest business practices:
Talon Armory
Hammered Wombat
Mandrake Armory
Historical Stud Buckle (OK-no armor, but great buckles!)
Waldryk's Armory
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by T.G. Moore:
<B>Where can I find a list of armourers that won't rip me off? Is cash up front fairly standard in online dealing? I have never bought armor online and I am nervous after reading these threads.
T.G. Moore</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1) Go to a major event/war and buy off the rack.
2) Keep checking on the armour archive for reviews of armorers. This is a great way to painlessly get to know the business practices of a diverse bunch of artisans.
After reading good reviews of an armorer, I'd be still a little leery for your own good. If the armorer asks for money up front (and they often do), ask if they will take a check and NOT CASH it until the project is actually started and a finish date is guranteed.
Make plain what your intentions are, and the back-up plan if the delivery date is missed. If an armorer is serious, they will understand. I don't see any problem giving the armorer more time than they promise for your "guaranteed by" date. This shows that you are willing to wait for quality, but not indefinitely. Then, if the guaranteed by date is missed, you should have the option of a refund. Alternatively, you may ask for a discount of some sort if the armor is truly "almost done", and often the armorer will give you a break anyways for your patience.
Finally, make it plain up-front that you will post a review, good or bad, to the AA after your armor is received. All armorers like praise, and good reviews often lead to more commissions. In fact, if your SCA group has a e-list, you may also post a review to the list. This is best if the feedback is positive.
Any armor that you buy on eBay also has a forum for feedback. You can read that and get an idea of what his business practices are like.
Good Luck!
Armorers that *I* know to have honest business practices:
Talon Armory
Hammered Wombat
Mandrake Armory
Historical Stud Buckle (OK-no armor, but great buckles!)
Waldryk's Armory
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by T.G. Moore:
<B>Where can I find a list of armourers that won't rip me off? Is cash up front fairly standard in online dealing? I have never bought armor online and I am nervous after reading these threads.
T.G. Moore</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Pale Spyder
- Archive Member
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- Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA
- Contact:
sorry to hear about your armour taking so long. I must say, though I am new to the board, I feel that Chris would be totally justified if he takes legal action. If this guy can't fill his orders (and has had a stint of bad luck) then maybe it's time for him to get a steady paycheck. I actually had a friend that dealt with scaworld.com and he never ordered from them because of the lack of communication.
I was wed this past Oct. and heres the names of some of the armouries I used:
http://www.illusionarmoring.com
http://www.icefalcon.com
both were great, though I would go with Illusion (done great, accurate work and delivered EXACTLY when they said they would)because Ice Falcon is serving his country.
I was wed this past Oct. and heres the names of some of the armouries I used:
http://www.illusionarmoring.com
http://www.icefalcon.com
both were great, though I would go with Illusion (done great, accurate work and delivered EXACTLY when they said they would)because Ice Falcon is serving his country.
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Christopher Starling
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: San Francisco CA USA
I spoke with a friend of Brands a couple of days ago. Brand has been economically hit very hard. He has been trying to stay in business even though it has cost him just about everything. He is trying in earnest to make good on past orders. His inability to keep in touch has been because of his lack of internet access.
He's doing the best that he can.
He's doing the best that he can.