Armor Store Rip off

Lulach · Post by **Lulach** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:39 pm

Just wanted to keep this current for those still waiting for a product.

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BTW- I would look up other comments about Wombat before I made any decisions either to or not to order. Read the Archive and make the decision for yourself. You'll see what I mean.

Damian · Post by **Damian** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:07 pm

FYI

You folks who are waiting for armour etc do know that Sir Brand is currently the sitting King of Caid?

Lulach · Post by **Lulach** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:52 pm

My comment was meant for the Wombat People as opposed to the Brand deal. Sorry...

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:43 pm

If Brand is a sitting SCA king you could always use other royalty to pressure him to deliver. Peer pressure is a bitch.

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:14 pm

If he is sitting the Throne.... then he is a liar and a thief.

anyone....

and I mean ANYONE who has been SCA royalty or directly involved with an SCA reign knows how INSANELY expensive it is to do!

I spent over $4000 above and beyond our travel fund on my first reign.
How does he have enough money to reign and not pay his customers back???

If he comes to Pennsic I suggest marching right into Caid encampment and DEMANDING your money.
If he can afford to come to Pennsic...he can afford to return you cash.

DAMN that pisses me off!

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:24 am

FWIW, I am reliably informed by one of my employees (who is an SCA Peer) that the King and Queen of Caid do not intend to camp in the Caid camp because "they don't like it there". They will be camping with the Kingdom of the West, which as I understand it is somewhere near the Middle Kingdom at the top of the hill.

Gwen

white mountain armoury · Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:43 am

I cant imagine winning crown and then camping with another kingdom, so much for a sence of duty.
and Sarnac pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:12 pm

Oy. How frikkin' pathetic. :roll:

I hope this is all incorrectly reported, as I'd be embarrassed to have someone like that as my king.

Effingham

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:24 pm

You guys do realize this thread is a year old???
Brand is easy to get a hold of -- go to the caid website if you still have a problem. And don't condemn people based on old rumour.

SirBrand · Post by **SirBrand** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:50 pm

I see the bashing never stops does it?

Well here I am, I stopped reading the Archive long long ago but a friend pointed me here.

My email is sirbrand2004@yahoo.com for those who were owed by The Armour Store.

1. For the two years I have been digging out of the debt from The Armour Store. Suggestion to everyone, Incorporate. Now I have been filling those old orders slowly but surely, as making armour without all of the tools and shop is a bit difficult. My lady and I moved into a house and set up a shop in the garage on June 12th, so I'm getting back into steady work again.

2. I have been desperately avoiding declaring bankruptcy, but posts like this definitely make me think it's best. Bankruptcy would mean nobody would get anything, and I don't like that. So I have lived very meagerly for the last couple of years, putting all spare funds into making armour and a living.

3. I started to play the game again, partly to rebuild the business so I could fulfill everything faster. Before I knew it I was knighted and summarily won crown, which has been great. I chose not to advertise or sell at events while King as I felt it a conflict of interest. Afterwards I had planned to reopen a site and get things really rolling again.

4. Being King is not as bad as people make it out, at least in Caid. With tremendous support from the populace and no more than a 2 hour drive usually, we spend our weekends making people smile. It is not as expensive as people make it out to be either, as it's only a few gallons of gas to hit an event. We are doing a great job as King and Queen and are giving back to the game the best we can.

5. Pennsic. I will be there so come and talk to me. We will be attending Pennsic from the 14th to the 21st. Travelling to Pennsic is our duty as the Crown and we have managed to pull it off. We requested different land for the Kingdom nearer the Merchants and the West. Unfortunately that did not come through so it looks like We will be camping in the old parking lot where Caid was last year.

So here's the deal, send an email to me at sirbrand2004@yahoo.com. Out of over 60 old orders I only have about 15 left...not too bad. If you are someone who was owed armour from the old biz, let me know if you want the items or a refund still. This is a mundane issue, one for which the solution is bankruptcy, but I don't wish to take that route and I think my old customers and creditors agree.

Hopefully this answers some questions,

Brand

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:50 pm

True ... the tread started over a year ago and he is now currently the seated King of Caid. Also true is that a large number of people had issues with him as the sole proprietor of "The Armour Store" in delivery of product that was already paid for. I would hope that he was able to get all of these back issue caught up and taken care of before stepping into the Crown lists ... to do otherwise would be reckless to say the least. But bringing up something of this issue should be much of an issue if HRM Brand has taken care of said problems, no? If he has, then it would only speak more of his caliber and character. But if he did have to declare bankruptcy ... I would think this too would speak of his character as both a Knight and seated Crown of the Realm.

SirBrand · Post by **SirBrand** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:52 pm

Read above....

I would like to hear from those who DID NOT recieve their orders yet. As I said, almost all have been cleared and of those remaining I lack contact info for.

Brand

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:03 pm

Being a former King of Caid and a veteran of something like 15 Pennsics, here are a couple of notes

1) Caid is a small kingdom land wise- from where I lived there were something like 11 baronies within a 2 hour drive. Outside of some garb and other purchases, this allows for a very low cost reign- easily in the $2000 range per royal. Also, the smallness of the kingdom and their proclivity towards day events without feasts takes many of the other straing off of the reigning royals as well. Further, you are Prince(ss) for only 6-8 weeks in Caid, further reducing cost and strain.

If you have a reasonable collection of nice garb, you can easily do a reign without breaking the bank.

2) Pennsic- We institued some funding from the kingdom to provide for the King and Queen to go to Pennsic. This also severly reduces the cost and strain of attending this most major SCA event.

3) Caid's camping space at Pennsic is terrible. As last year's king I spent as little time there as possible. It is hot, and non-hospitable, especially after or during rain (which was most of last pennsic). It is convenient only to the lower part of the battlefield. I wouldn't blame anyone from Caid who worked activley to camp elsewhere.

4) I am sure Brand is working hard to get his backlog done. Sometimes this take longer than planned. Give him a chance.

Alaric, Dux

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:15 pm

Alaric....

even if it is "only" $2000....

that $2000 that should be given back to people this guy owed money to LONG before he ever considered fighting in Crown.

Anything less is irresponsible at best.

priorities are WAY out of wack here.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:41 pm

He replied here, politely, to charges (both financial and moral).

That beats a host of others who have just taken the money and run. We all know at least a couple.

He is apparently attempting to make amends. He has a weasel option easily available (and taken by many people now days), and he isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t taking the weasel way out.

Brand is still trying to find the people who he owes money or product to. If you are owed money or product, I would suggest both posting here and e-mailing him.

It isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t easy to drag yourself out of a mess like that Ã¢â‚¬â€œ and recognize that itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s your own mess that you made. Knowing you are caught in a trap of your own design doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make it easy.

It is easy to blame the customer, the economy, SCA politics, Living History people, the President (always a favorite), the weatherÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ To flat out, publicly blame yourself takes bravery.

The long, uphill fight to bring yourself out of the sewage filled hole you made, and making amends with the enemies you made is a long term act of social / mental bravery.

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve enjoyed watching Brand fight to bring himself back from financial, social and moral oblivion.

Yes, crown may have been grossly irresponsible, but not everyone chases crown with a clean soul. Some come with baggage.

Brand owes 15 people the cost of the baggage.

I figure at $200 each, that's ~$3000.

Yep, if he had $2000 to blow on crown, he should have forked it over and asked for handouts to be king. Better to be a Fisher King asking for money for his reign than to play the Emperor in his New Clothes, and recline on the throne of Caid in the stained laundry of financial mismanagement for all to see.

At least as King, he isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t hiding from anyone. Nobody can claim that.

Good luck and God Bless Brand. Keep fighting to regain your armouring honor, and please avoid that easy route of bankruptcy.

Please, be the first failed armourer on the Archive to come back from oblivion and regain their honor. I love an underdog story.

-Aaron

Durame · Post by **Durame** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:21 pm

Sorry to hear your story!

I will have a website soon and I dont think il take any money upfront.. .... or juste the bare minimum for steel

keep us informed

Durame

Ugo · Post by **Ugo** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:22 pm

All right ... Back off monkeys, Brand has been nothing but honorable with my dealings with him and has had the BAWLS to make himself present here and account for himself. He pretty much lost everything and has come back from a dark place many wouldn't overcome. making an effort to deliver on his debts.
It seems so much easier for humans to jump on the beat down bandwaggon, Here's an idea.... get all the info& facts first, BEFORE defaming someone publicly. This may be ALOT to ask of some of you, but try to show SOME class and contact people you have issues with privately(ie. "hey, looking for ..." type of posts) instead of apealling to what I'm so sick of seeing on this board.

Ok, I'm done...

Luv.

Ugo

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:58 pm

Anybody notice that nobody who has posted is one of the 15 people Brand owes armour/money to?

Can we let the man get on with his life here? Please?

Sebastian K · Post by **Sebastian K** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:16 am

This actually just came about because Mr.Lulach, whose only purpose here seems to be bumping Hammered Wombat threads popped the wrong thread. I do not know of recent dealings, but Sir Brand has been very prompt and courteous to me when I ordered from him in 99.

Brand, I wish you all the best in your endeavour to catch up and for not weaseling out I say kudos!

Regards

Sebastian

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:33 am

Sarnac,

You are right- if someone has the money, they should pay it back.

I am not privy to his private life, but perhaps his lady is covering the cost of the reign- it wouldn't be the first time that happened...

Alaric

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:54 am

I have a lot of respect for a man who can say he's wrong. Dunno about the whole king thing, but who am I to say?

We all screw up, but some of us try to make good.

I have less respect for people who make a new user just to stir up dissent. *coughs* Again, my apology if the chance in a thousand he's an actual new user comes up.

white mountain armoury · Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:14 am

These threads exist for a reason and are needed, i think its fantasctic that Brand has posted to this thread and that he is working hard to meet obligations he made at one time. But you can hardly blame people for discussing it here.
I spoke with a fellow a little while ago who saved up his money and mailed it to an armourer for a helmet, he never got his helmet and never got his money back, so in need of a helmet he comissioned another from a diff armourer, and guess what, he was robbed again, no refund, no helmet, both of these armourers were active posters on this forum, one is still posting regularly, i think its shamefull and disgusting behavior, im amazed this fellow had the balls to pony up cash for another helmet. This fellows woes had nothing to do with Brand, but they are an obvious reason why threads like this exist. Now digging up this thread by someone who has no stake in it is akin to "pot stirring" and it certainly sucks, but it does not change the fact that there is a cycle of behavior with certain armourers that sucks beyond description. Infact the reason i am an armourer today is because i was screwed by an armourer, my armour was painfully late and subpar when it arrived, not useable, it made me realize that if this was what was to be expected than all it would take to be successfull would be a quality piece deliverd in a timely manner.
If this thread is old dirt dug up that no longer applies than im sorry for those involved, but unfortunatly armourer theft is a popular subject that needs to be addressed.

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:51 am

sarnac wrote:Alaric....

even if it is "only" $2000....

that $2000 that should be given back to people this guy owed money to LONG before he ever considered fighting in Crown.

Anything less is irresponsible at best.

priorities are WAY out of wack here.

Sarnac- What I have read seems to indicate that Brand could issue a refund at any time but can't because he has no contact info for the customer.
I presume that the money is available or banked just waiting for the customer to show. If that is the case I certainly don't have a problem with Brand getting on with life. I can see that perhaps he should have used the Archive and other boards as a means of contacting these lost souls. Now that word is out those that are still owed armour/funds can contact him and make the final arrangements.

I have the vision in my head of Brand and a scribe at Pennsic making the payouts to people like a landsknecht paymaster.
Captain Jamie

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:18 am

well...

call me a hard ass... I disagree.

He owes people money or armour that people have ALREADY PAID for and have been waiting sometimes YEARS for.

Nothing should take precedence beyond his day to day mundane life than that.
He got himself into this.... get out of it before devoting time and resources to a GAME.
To do any less is irresponsible.

Having been the one who got screwed before.... I understand the anger.

He owes me nothing... nor do I have a vested interest in this...this just really bugs me for some reason.

Ugo · Post by **Ugo** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:17 am

Soapbox there buddy?... :roll:

The point was clear a while ago, as Brand wrote earlier " see above post" What are ya... some kind of 'Lisa Simpson activist with a cause"?

I agree with white mountain, once you've tried & tried to resolve things to no avail, it's understandable.

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:26 am

I have done business with Brand. He did right by me. I spoke to him for an hour when I picked up my stuff (years ago) and he struck me as an honest and straightforward kind of guy.

Of all the "problem" armorers here on the archive, past and present, I'd guess you folks with delinquent orders might have the best chance of any to get satisfaction from Brand. I wish you customers, and Brand, the best of luck in getting this worked out.

Many of you are familiar with the Armor Store munitions grade gear but you have never seen Brand's custom work. He is capable of some really beautiful Greek stuff---amongst other things. I would certainly consider commisioning something from him once he gets out of his backlog.

Cheers,
Tim

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:42 am

O.k., I'll take a different stance and try to help out with the backlog and to move things along. Is there a roster/list of people who you are trying to contact to get their backorders too? You used to have one at SCAWORLD.com but that's not coming up anymore and I see someone is still squating on armourstore.com. I will forward this list onto our regional lists and fighter lists to see if anyone knows the new contact info for these past customers. Or would you prefer we just put a broadcast message with your email address letting people know you are seeking former customers who are owed product, or just tell them to seek you out at Pennsic?

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:59 pm

Ugo, et all...

I am on no soapbox nor do I have a vested interest in what happens to your friends customers....

I am simply tired of seeing MY friends get ripped off by peopel like him and then hearing sob stories to try to justify some ones fraud.

Too bad.

Thats what being in business is all about.

Ive been there too.... gone from everything to nothing... and back, and NEVER owed anyone a thing.

in fact...
when this thread pops up again in 6 months saying he owes someone else armour or money...I will ignore it as I am going to do from now on...

its not worth me getting worked up over.

Christopher Starling · Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:21 am

Howdy Folks,
Well it is another year and half later. Brand did send me some of the armor. Not all. I found out that he was selling armor on ebay, so I contacted him and asked about the rest of my armor. We worked out a deal and he said that he would get on it right after coronation weekend. That was LAST FEBUARY. I wish Brand the best of luck, but I sure would like the remainder of the armor, or at least sincere comunication.
Christopher Starling

Christopher Starling · Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:31 am

Oops, mistake on the date... not last February 2004, it was last Novenmber, of 2003. Christopher Starling

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:03 pm

Well, Christopher Starling is ONE out of the 15 outstanding.

I'm surprised nobody else posted.

Frankly one order outstanding (and half-filled) isn't a horrible track record.

What is the rest of the order Brand needs to fill out?

-Aaron

Christopher Starling · Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:17 pm

The remainder of the order was a Brigandine. Leather and Aluminum.
I have sent Brand an email (now that I have one again) and a proposal for a solution. Just sent it today, and am hoping for a reply.
---------Christopher Starling------------

SirBrand · Post by **SirBrand** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:34 am

Chris will be taken care of this in the next couple of weeks before Pennsic.

There won't be many responses as there were only 15, now 14, names worldwide left on the backorder list, most of the items small. Still I will gladly send the items or a refund if I can find these folks.

Christopher Starling · Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:20 am

Brand Lancasters reply to my proposal was swift. Thanks again Sir Brand.
In case anyone is interested I will resubmit when the armor arrives.
---------Christopher Starling------------

Connar · Post by **Connar** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:11 am

As someone who has been ripped off by an armorer, NOT SIR BRAND, I can say that seeing him actively respond to posts without blaming anyone other than himself is very good indeed.

I have fucked up a lot in 35 years, and even though it seems a simple thing to do, sometimes it takes balls to stand up and take the heat from your mistakes.

Everything I've seen him post points to him being sincere, apologetic, and more than willing to make good on his promises.

Now I'm not saying waiting forever for armor doesn't suck, but actually communicating with the person, and not getting form letter excuses must be nice....hell, just knowing this guy would be at an event must be nice.

I am fortunate in that if I ever want armor, I live 40 minutes from WMA/Adam Berry, but I can tell you that if this were not the case, the only armor I would buy would be in my hand when the cash came out.

In a nutshell....its good to see somebody facing the music and trying like hell to make good on his mistakes....

Armor Store Rip off

From Brand