Combat of Thirty '08 News and Recruitment

Hedinn · Post by **Hedinn** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:16 pm

I will stand with the English, if you will have me.

davidt · Post by **davidt** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:22 am

To all good men of courage and strong arm,

I was honored to stand with the English last year and would do so again if possible. I humbly offer my services to this most noble cause.

Tobiasz de Baku,
Squire of Sir Angus O'Niall

eldric.von.atzinger · Post by **eldric.von.atzinger** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:48 am

after speaking to Sir Vitus on this, I have recieved his blessing to persue this endeaver . So I hear do pleadge myself to the French cause. It would be an honor to stand the field beside and across the great men who take up this call.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:11 pm

*sigh*

If only it were in mine century...
Alas I am but a mere hundred years the younger.

Ieuan Gower · Post by **Ieuan Gower** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:53 am

I too shall declare for the English and test the valour and prowess of the French. Two years ago I witnessed this battle at Pennsic and have ever since desired to take part.

Viscount Ieuan Gower

Johannes · Post by **Johannes** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:25 pm

Hedinn wrote:I will stand with the English, if you will have me.

Seems the English are collecting Couter Tenans. It would be an honor.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:58 pm

no one wishes to explain the ransom system to a newbie hoping he may be able to join in the 14th century fun? :sad:

white mountain armoury · Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:18 pm

bleddyn wrote:no one wishes to explain the ransom system to a newbie hoping he may be able to join in the 14th century fun?

Some felt the ransoms were a little out of hand last year. Some did not.
You should have a ransom worthy of your station.
I am a peer on the society, my portrayal is german merc in a free company 1350 hundred years war.
I wanted a ransom to represent those things.
My most valuable posessions would most likely have been the tools of my trade, aka my armour.
While I needed my actual armour for pennsic I instead made 5 pairs of carbon steel elbows (2 sets are for sale on the classified page) to be symbolic of the giving of my armour as ransom.
Ransom could be many things, I am not there to get "treats" I am more interested in a genuine and heartfelt token.
Hope this helps

Johannes · Post by **Johannes** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:26 pm

Does anyone have a link to last year's thread? I can never get the search function to be useful when i want something

white mountain armoury · Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:33 pm

Johannes, I am pretty sure all that info was lost in the Archive crash a month or so back.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:29 pm

ok so you gave armour pieces...did the person's you gave them to keep them or return them after the fight? cause as a student and not an armourer i would not be able to afford giving out that kind of ransom.

Ieuan Gower · Post by **Ieuan Gower** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:54 pm

That was the bit about "according to your station" - give something cool but don't feel the need to impoverish yourself while doing so.

My assumption is that those who felt the ransoms were getting out of hand were those who were not in a position to keep up with the arms race. They shouldn't feel the need to... when the bar is raised things should be kept relative to your position both within the society and the mundane world. I would much rather give or be given a hearfelt thingy by a guy with whom I shared a great experience than go away feeling that the experience had made them uncomfortable either through their feeling that the ransom was inadequate or too generous.

Ieuan

Friedrich Parcifal · Post by **Friedrich Parcifal** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:23 pm

bleddyn wrote:ok so you gave armour pieces...did the person's you gave them to keep them or return them after the fight? cause as a student and not an armourer i would not be able to afford giving out that kind of ransom.

Master Magnus is a peer and an armorer, so he tried to reflect that station with his ransoms. I am a squire, the ransoms I prepared were not so lofty. I offered period approriate glassware or my 'salary' to that point of the war. According to medieval price lists my salary as a squire would be something like 1 shilling a day. I had been fighting at the war 3 days at that point, so I had some of Jehan's replica coins worth 3-4 shillings on hand for ransom.

Having only fought in one, and not knowing your situation I can't really offer any more specific advice. Just that for me, the moment in time that was the Thirty last year was worth far more than any ransoms I earned or lost. It was a chance to contend with men of renown and prowess on a field of honor and more than a little brutality.

It was a step away from the typical SCA experience towards a medieval immersion. Its the kind of experience I was looking for when I joined the SCA (and long before), and the experience I have been waiting all year for since last year's ended.

Johannes · Post by **Johannes** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:08 pm

The feeling that the ransoms had gotten out of hand was partially that it seemed like some people had taken the ransoms to be too important. The original intent of the 30 was to produce a more authentic fighting experience for the people in it, not a way to compete over who brought cooler stuff.

In answer to bleddyn's question, the ransoms are paid by combatants who have been captrued by their foe after being bested in an engagement. As long as you have ransoms to pay with, you may re-enter the field and continue the fight.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:08 pm

If I recall correctly the first SCA 30 didn't allow you to get back in by paying a ransom- you could however re-enter if you had been taken for ransom and your captor was later killed.

Also, the ransoms for the 1st were in the form of coins made available for purchase by the folks sponsoring the event with the required purchase based on rank something like 3 coins for an unbelt- 5 for knights , 10 for counts etc... up to some number for sitting Kings (of which there were at least two- Kelson and Felix). It may have been that the coins were not even purchased but given though I'm pretty sure it was something like $1/coin.

Additional sorts of tokens/ransoms could be given if so desired but the requirement was the established minimum coinage- no ore no less. At least one fellow gave his armour to Rhys, not as ransome though; he'd been killed, but to fund having his body shipped home

For my part I preferred this system to what has been used subsequently as it seems to encourage the right spirit.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:25 pm

Eadric of Stonemarche wrote:
bleddyn wrote:ok so you gave armour pieces...did the person's you gave them to keep them or return them after the fight? cause as a student and not an armourer i would not be able to afford giving out that kind of ransom.

Master Magnus is a peer and an armorer, so he tried to reflect that station with his ransoms. I am a squire, the ransoms I prepared were not so lofty. I offered period approriate glassware or my 'salary' to that point of the war. According to medieval price lists my salary as a squire would be something like 1 shilling a day. I had been fighting at the war 3 days at that point, so I had some of Jehan's replica coins worth 3-4 shillings on hand for ransom.

Having only fought in one, and not knowing your situation I can't really offer any more specific advice. Just that for me, the moment in time that was the Thirty last year was worth far more than any ransoms I earned or lost. It was a chance to contend with men of renown and prowess on a field of honor and more than a little brutality. It was a step away from the typical SCA experience towards a medieval immersion. Its the kind of experience I was looking for when I joined the SCA (and long before), and the experience I have been waiting all year for since last year's ended.

I also first go in to emerse myself in historical combat (this was only about half a year ago that I discovered the SCA so I'm quite new, just freshly authorized in sword and board) I have a grand supply of leather and have been trying to make a pair of turnshoes and a kidney pouch of late and now thinking about ransoms I want to know if kidney pouches would work?

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:38 pm

In keeping with the theme of the orginal

I pay in coins made by Jehan.

Usually about 5 groats or so. Which i think i worked out to about half a campaigns pay for me.

People seem to dig it.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:40 pm

in a thread i made earlier this year about the combat of the thirty I was given the original rules which said only 2handed weapons would be able to stun, but in the video from last years combat of the thirty there is a knight using a mace and buckler to stun, are there any other 1handed weapons that can be used?(Besides swords and daggers to the armpits)

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:43 pm

Yeah but Sir Roger (i think it was him) hits hard enough to do it with a mace

Plus i think we allowed it last year

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:45 pm

cool...ill just have to work on hitting hard because I doubt I'll have a 2handed authorization by Pennsic time...

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:46 pm

It's in August

you can do it by then.

If not and your English then i have some ideas

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:49 pm

Murdock The Zombie Slayer wrote:It's in August

you can do it by then.

If not and your English then i have some ideas

if invited the only reason i wouldnt be english is if the teams needed to be even...ideas you say? (though Im small ive been told by the bigger fellows i fight with i am hittig as hard as they think one should....and if i wanted i could up it a little more)

Roger_de_Gilbert · Post by **Roger_de_Gilbert** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:57 pm

I had a great time last year and I am really going to make an effort to get out there again.

Johanes, it would be an honor to fight by your side.

Murdock, I hit like a little girl, don't scare the French away, we want their toys.

As to Ransoms, I say give what you can and what you feel you can afford. I have seen amazing things and simple coins. It does not matter what the token is. It only matters that you have competed upon the field with other noble men-at-arms. Hopefully, the thing you will most treasure will be the memories and new friends.

Roger,
Crusty old knight, apparently

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:15 am

Yes Sir Roger, we'll go with that.

As for the sides being even i don't think the English have ever outnumbered the French. One year due to injury and illness there were about 16 English and almost 30 French

So we fought both halves of the French sepeately.

The word massacre mean anything to you?

Huuuuuummmmmmmmmm
I has me an idea

I needs to runs it by Sir Johannes first

Johannes · Post by **Johannes** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:42 am

Nigel and I will be discussing the conventions for this year soon. My own inclination is to move back closer to the original rules, but part of the reason for this thread is to discuss what is working and what we want to see changed. Let's hear what you think.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:19 pm

I'd like the fights to go longer but I'm not sure how to accomplish that. My gut feeling is that the rules make stunning too easy.

DarkApprentice · Post by **DarkApprentice** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:15 pm

Fight to satisfaction!!!

Only die when you know when you were dead or don't want to go on anymore!

DA

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:23 am

I like DA's suggestion in theory, but I'm young and stupid.

Assuming that I financially and physically am able to be at Pennsic, Sir Raito has pleged his, and thus my, service to Sir Nigel. Hopefully I will be more useful with this go.

If I remember right, weren't the ransoms the French demanded of the English at the original 30 rather small? I think that was Rhys's reasoning for small dollar amounts. It seems to me that goods as ransom encourage the feel of a pas, which the 30 is not. Coinage gives the feeling of ransom from an actual battle. I also like the idea of not letting people back in unless their captor dies.

I'm a nobody, so my ideas may be completely off the wall.

Gregoire de Lyon · Post by **Gregoire de Lyon** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:33 am

My thoughts on ransoms:

Replica coins are cool, however, one can not really do anything with replica coins but save them in a pouch.

If this were 1351, the coins received from ransoms I would be used to buy material goods.

Making/buying material goods to give as ransoms simply takes out the middle man.

---

Last year I brought benches as my ransom. I enjoyed making them almost as much as I enjoyed fighting in the battle. I enjoyed giving them more than I enjoyed making them.

aengus1385 · Post by **aengus1385** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:52 am

I am also starting in the captaincy cold, so would love to see a show of hands for who thinks at this point they will be able to attend and who would like to join Murdock and myself representing the English.

I, your cousin, Sir Aengus MacBain, Magister Laurae, commend myself and my Lady Wife, Maitresse Yvianne de Castel dâ€™Avignon, to you as nobles well suited to the field of Honor. It is my intent to offer challenge and with Godâ€™s Grace hold the field at your upcoming COTT. May that day be filled with feats of valor and marked by excellence.

You will recognize me by my personal Arms, Azure, a stag's head couped affronty Or, a bordure embattled argent and by the badge of My Household. Also you will know me by my accomplishments: Knight of the Society, Master of the Laurel, Companion of the Fleur dâ€™AEthelmearc, Companion of the Gage, Principal of the Order of Merit for Martial Authenticity, thrice Bearer of the Shield of Chivalry and other accolades equally worthy of note but so numerous that to name them all would seem boastful

By her good grace I bear the favor of my Lady Wife, Maitresse Yvianne de Castel dâ€™Avignon and will strive to do her honor on this field of combat. You will recognize her by the Household badge and also by her personal Arms Granted and by Letters Patent: Per pale azure and Or, two wyverns statant respectant conjoined at the breast counterchanged, on a chief argent three fleurs-de-lys azure. You will know her by her accomplishments: Mistress of the Laurel, Companion of the Fleur dâ€™AEthelmearc, Former Kingdom Signet and by her very presence at the list field as my beloved and steadfast inspiration.

To increase the splendor and glory of the Kingdom, and that those unfamiliar with them as individuals might identify them, our household as a whole bears the badge "On a quatrefoil pean a lion rampant argent" These are the good gentles who will be among the first to support us should we find the need to call upon them.

Writ on Saturday, the day before the celebration of the resurrection of our Lord, in our home, A.S. XLII, by milady wife.

Stephen du Bois · Post by **Stephen du Bois** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:14 pm

Hey Murdoch!!!!

I just got my tolhoffer ax head :lol:

Can I play for the English (if we tweek my kit)??

Stephen

Nigel, Duke of Arrochar · Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:28 pm

Good people,

Sir Johannes and I began some early discussions for the conventions for the CotT for this year while at Gulf Wars. Johannes and I both feel that many people were taking the "What can I bring/take home from the CotT" a little too far. Hearing comments of "You should see all of the stuff I got" are not what the CotT is supposed to be about. It is about trying to "get into the moment."

To this end, I believe that I can speak for Johannes on this as well, we will be refining the CotT this year. We will be more closely following the original rules for the 1st CotT that was held at Pennsic some 3 years ago.

I would also like to add, "Hats off" to Cet and the people who ran the deed at Gulf Wars as they had the "stones" to turn away a least one but I think possibly several people that did not have appropriate kits for the endeavour. That is something that Sir Johannes and I feel very deeply about.

Also, Sir Johannes and I began discussing the tightening of the weapons standards for the CotT as we think that the weapon standards have been used in a way that takes away from the intent of the CotT.

I believe that was the original point of this thread...feel people out about what they have seen in prior CotT's and see if we can keep the CotT going in the direction that we want it to go. Namely, do not let it become too "SCAdian" as I beleive Rhys put it once.\

Sir Johannes, my worthy adversary, correct me if I am wrong.

Captain of the French Forces,
Sir Nigel MacFarlane

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:35 pm

would also like to add, "Hats off" to Cet and the people who ran the deed at Gulf Wars as they had the "stones" to turn away a least one but I think possibly several people that did not have appropriate kits for the endeavour. That is something that Sir Johannes and I feel very deeply about.

I think you mean to dip your hat toSir Cedric, Sir Nigel, as I had nothing to do with the Gulf Wars emprise.

I am very pleased to here of the tack You and Johannes are tacking with this years 30 and I am anticipating it greatly.

Regards

cet

Nigel, Duke of Arrochar · Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:39 pm

Oops. I stand corrected. Thank you.

Hats off to Sir Cedric.

It was something else to see him rolling on his back giggling like a mad-man when it was all over.

Respectfully,

Sir Nigel MacFarlane

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:27 pm

Nigel, I applaud you and Johannes for wanting to get the moment, and to Cedric for making the battle at Gulf Wars be special, not all-inclusive. While the stuff for my kit is only in my mind, I hope to one day join you both on the field of 60.

With affection and respect,
Sieur Jean Paul de Sens

Combat of Thirty '08 News and Recruitment

COTT

The 30

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