A question for other armored riders out there

jcesarelli · Post by **jcesarelli** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:21 pm

I am not sure whether this should get posted here or on the Historical forum, but I have a question for the equestrians on this board. Over the years I have jousted in a few different saddles and have not been overly concerned about a few armor bites and scrapes on my saddles as long as I was able to prevent major cuts in the leather. I have acquired a new( to me) saddle and am really in love with it. I am wondering about the ways that others out there protect their saddles and, if you are, maintaining a "period look". The saddle is a bullfighting saddle if the style know as the Portuguesa like the one pictured on the web site listed below:
http://rincondelcaballo.com/catalog/pro ... ucts_id=53

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:31 pm

A mochila, or saddle cloth (foot cloth, they are called in accounts- think a decorative saddle cloth over the saddle), would be a solution seen in art, and in the case of the foot cloth, documents as well.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:18 pm

That's what I ride in, a Portuguese saddle. They're pretty darned comfy! I put a steel plate on the pommel for jousting, since I've seen (and experienced!) the effects of a lance glancing down, rather than up, from the breastplate, and don't care to recreate that fun again. Having that pommel plate in place in and of itself ought to save the leather from a great deal of wear-and-tear.

Cheers!

Gordon

jcesarelli · Post by **jcesarelli** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:33 am

Not to derail my own thread too much Gordon, but I have experienced the wonders and joys of having to pick pieces of a broken lance out of the mail covering the crotch :!:

. I am considering attaching a pommel plate, but most of what I concerned about in terms of damage to the leather is that the leg armor has a tendency to chew on the skirting.

Fire Stryker · Post by **Fire Stryker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:13 am

Joseph,

use "disposable" leather pieces that either cover your entire saddle -- moquilla that chef suggested-- or attach in some fashion to the lower portion of the saddle. Probably via the D's or you may have to add additional "attachment points".

These side pieces would tie on and cover the skirts and go over the stirrup leathers.

As seen in this rather unusual image from a Talhoffer manuscript.

Note the panel that goes over the stirrup leathers. This removable panel can be found on numerous images from Germanic sources. Even DÃ¼rer shows the saddles in many of his works to be covered with a leather covering.

Hope this helps.

Jenn

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:54 am

http://www.flamencoshop.com/equestrian/ ... saddle.htm

Zalea/wool saddle cover avaialbe commercially with a bit aof digging and expense.

Otherwise most ot the features on a Portuguese are pretty square so making a cover of material should be pretty simple. I think a couple of the surviving earliest saddles which resemble modern Portugueses were velvet covered which would be a real nice touch. For bonus points you could add in the extra bolstering behind the thigh.

Fire Stryker · Post by **Fire Stryker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:20 am

Thing to keep in mind is if his armour is beating the hell out of his skirts, a velvet pad is going to get chewed, however, for an out of armour presentation, a nice velvet or damask foot-clothe would be very nice.

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:30 am

I am just suggesting a simple single layer velvet cover. It won't absorb heavy hits but it will reduce scratching and chafing. Obviously you could make something out of canvas or other strong material to develope the pattern and then use it for training whilst saving the velvet for shows.

http://rincondelcaballo.com/catalog/pro ... ucts_id=52

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:48 pm

I would agree that something on the order of a footcloth/shabraque/mochilla would be a good bet, made out of leather or a heavy velvet lined in canvas. Either of them would have to be considered expendable, but would save your saddle skirts from being chewed up, and I would think would last you at least a season if not a couple of them. Plus the added panoply of a fancy covering would add to the overall impression too. I'd say it's a win/win solution.

Ah yes, the lance splinters in the crotch routine! I saw a fellow get that treatment at a joust a few years ago, who had unfortunately loaned out his maille skirting to another fellow. The splinter cut deep in his upper thigh :shock:

, and it was damned lucky not to have cut the artery. They sent him to the emergency room for stitches and whatnot, and he wasn't up to anymore riding that weekend, needless to say! A glancing low shot on me that thankfully hit my buff coat aided my interest in a bit of armour in that area! A pommel steel is your friend (in this case, at least).

Cheers!

Gordon

Below is a photo of the (English) King's Champion's saddle from the 17th Century. Velvet can be pretty spiffy.

jcesarelli · Post by **jcesarelli** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:19 pm

Bob, Jenn, Gordon, Mike,

Thank you all for your responses. I have some leather, canvas and velvet from other projects that I can use to cobble a cover together. I will make something out of canvas for practice sessions, and work on something more ornate for when I am in front of the public. I need to do some more research, so that i can put something together that will be suitably "fancy". Jenn, Gordon, thanks for the references to get me started. Thank you all again for the information.

Fire Stryker · Post by **Fire Stryker** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:56 pm

Any time.

The Flaming saddle is from 1457 (approx), I'll double check to be sure, and the DÃ¼rer is "St. Eustace" 1501. So it gives you a good spread. It can also be seen in "The Knight, Death, and the Devil" 1513-14.

Cheers,

Jenn