Titanium Bar Grill

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:54 am

OK, I know titanium and other exotic amazonian hardwoods are not allowed for helmet construction, but does this include bar grills?

The reason I am asking is that I have quite a bit of extremely strong titanium round stock ranging in size from .22" to about 3/8' diameter. It is the cut off ends of stock used to make high grade titanium fasteners (the shear strength is some sick high number like 60k + psi). I have a buddy that can weld it if I provide the wire (not cheap stuff) and help pay for the gas, cause you use a lot (you have to weld it in an air tight chamber to avoid weakening it from oxygen getting into the weld/metal when its hot).

So it would make an incredibly strong bar grill. The rest of the helmet would be mild 14g so the overall mass would still be normal (Roman infantry style helm).

Attaching the thing will be a challange, but I have some good ideas on that, but don't want to waste my time if it will get failed. That and working it is not fun, but it is still nice stuff and its just laying around unused.

And I will also be checking with my local marshall, just wanted to see what y'all thought about it.

Thanks,
Chris

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:04 am

I can't see how they would have a problem with that, as long as the helm was sturdy enough. I've never held anything titanium, but I would imagine that it couldn't be that noticeably lighter than a 16g visor.

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:55 am

Titainium can be very tough, but also very brittle. Sometimes it is a good thing that the metal on a helm either has some give or flexibility to it. I would be wary using titainum as a bargrill and its not easy to shape and weld together. Just make sure after you make the grill you put it through some stress tests to make sure there will not be any failure. Remember, it will be protecting your pretty face so you don't want it to ever fail. :shock:

Aedinius

Paul the Small · Post by **Paul the Small** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:18 am

I don't know about a bargrill, buy you could make some super sexy basket hilts out of that.

Agnarr · Post by **Agnarr** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:32 am

Paul the Small wrote:I don't know about a bargrill, buy you could make some super sexy basket hilts out of that.

I second that!

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:49 am

Thats actually why I would prefer the Ti. This alloy (6-4) is about double the strength of steel at about half the weight. Also with this alloy I am actually more concerned about too much flex in it as it is not at all a brittle form, it has the ability to take a brutal amount of bending without permanent deformation (makes it a real joy to fabricate, NOT).
And with all due respect to even the heavy hitters, I have seen this stuff take some truly incredible hits that almost nothing save tool steel would survive.

It took a hit like the one at 2:50 in the following video and did not get permanently deformed. Same machine did the hitting, different match.
Wish the robot overall did as well. :lol:

So I think my ugly mug will be safe if I can get the attachment right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZcOsh83T4A

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:52 am

I actually prefer regular steel for the basket hilts as I think the weight helps the weapon balance. The ti will put the center of rotation too high for my liking, but I have not gone to the trouble of actually making one to test that theory.

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:55 am

I'm a big fan of light basket hilts. If you made one out of Ti, I would buy it. Seriously.

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:34 am

If I do build one and don't like it (big if

) we might be able to work something out. Going to be a wait though, lots of stuff on my stack of to do tasks.

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:30 pm

Sounds like you did your homework and have the correct Ti to make what your wanting. Honestly, out of all the parts of armor my helm is one of the things I like to have some weight to it. Just a personal preferance since having weight in my opinion helps prevent getting hurt. My old Mild steel Roman Cav helm I use got rammed into a tree with three people on top of me at the Ravin in Gulf War and all I got was a nasty headache. I would however like to see the grill or even basket hilt if you make one though.

Aedinius

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:43 pm

When I get it it done I will be sure to post.
And given my destructive tendencies I am sure it will get tested in some brutal fashion or another. :lol:

hopefully with pictures.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:19 pm

where are you located?
I can be brutal.

Shinyhead · Post by **Shinyhead** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:24 pm

Bit South of you, down in Trimaris, Gainesville area.

MuchPainNeeded2 · Post by **MuchPainNeeded2** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:54 pm

I know I'm not the most experienced person with Ti... but my understanding is that as it flexes it work hardens and becomes quite brittle. The rods your using might have fantastic strength even after welding (which should alter drastically unless your planning on having the finished product fully re-tempered) however Ti flexes.. a lot.. and a helm or basket is hit quite often. I wouldn't be concerned for the first while about a catastrophic fail.. it's after it's been hit a hundred times or so and given a year or so to age. There is a reason that the US doesn't use TI to skin their Sub's.. unlike Russia (oops).

Atlanta Armory · Post by **Atlanta Armory** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:14 pm

I'd also be a bit wary of titanium. It performs like really light cast iron or glass. It'll flex some but it will eventually shatter if it is work hardened enough and/or bent too far. I don't know if getting hit would be enough to harden the Ti but it could be a disaster if it did.