Purchasing newbie gear on a budget.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:46 am

Hello all,

I thought about posting this in the classified section but I didnâ€™t want it lost in the usual buying/selling chatter there and I didnâ€™t want people hopping on with personal advertisementsâ€¦

Newbies never come in a steady stream but instead come in waves and we are experiencing one right now. The shire loaner equipment is not that good and stretching to service 4 people is impossible. Luckily one of the new fighters is willing to spend reasonable amounts of cash to get gear now. Iâ€™m also considering requesting funds for a better / more loaner equipment.

Weâ€™ve seen these posts before but of course the market changes. If you were trying to choose 2.5 of 3 (cheep, fast and sorta-good), who would you look to buy starter gear from? Please be specific on pieces and cost. Assume a reasonable amount of tool use (padding, straps, maybe lacing lamellar or a kit helm but not but and not a CoP from scratch). Which armories, which items, what materials?

Thanks in advance,
Sean

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:06 am

Welp,

I'm helping my nephew get kitted out with decent gear. If he lived close, I would be making him stuff.

If you have someone with the tools and workshop to use, I might suggest some "armouring nights" to make some loaner gear. But if that's not an option, I suggest:

Mad Matt's armoury: Good prices, fairly decent look. Seems to have very good service. Get the stainless (for low maintenence loaner gear) and strap it yourself. The floating articulation is pretty flexible size-wise too.

Stonekeep and James River both offer very good prices and pretty good designs from an SCA point of view, but the shell articulation is little less size-flexible, and so not as good for loaner gear.

Just one dweebs opinion

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:23 am

what pieces/sizes are you looking for in paticular?
There are a number of options for those on the cheap.

Garreth · Post by **Garreth** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:57 am

Well, this may not be the most popular opinion, but ashcraft baker helms are great for starter / loaner gear. Not the prettiest helm, but solidly built and very servicable.

http://ashcraftbaker.com/12g%20Spangen%20lift.htm

$105 for a helm with a removable grill and a 12 gauge top. It also appears that they are no longer using spun bowls, or they are at least cutting them down and welding them into an oval, head shaped profile.

My squire brother has this helm and it is rock solid. Another squire brother has my old A/B helm, and it is still going strong after 15 years.

Much better than the indian import crap, or the ugly Paul Chen helms.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:14 am

Strongbow wrote:Welp,
If you have someone with the tools and workshop to use, I might suggest some "armouring nights" to make some loaner gear. But if that's not an option, I suggest:

Just one dweebs opinion

That was plan A (and a pretty good opinion for a dweeb) as I own a fairly decent shop BUT I also have a 2 year old who goes to bed soon after I get home from work. It dosn't leave much loud time in the basement on weekdays. I also have 3 other newbies who are on a tighter budget and longer time frames that I'm helping do the same thing... besides I need to work on my OWN new suit.

Stonekeep and Mad Matt are both on my shopping list so far. I'll have to check out James River (is he custom or off-the-shelf?) but what PIECES from which guys would you buy?

And lets make it a little more chalenging, can we keep all of this stuff from the same century? A kit you could be happy with for a little while, not just 'get em on the field'.

Thanks, Sean

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:22 am

Plastic Lamellar makes great loaner gear, since you can add/subtract so easily.

You can order Waldryk stainless basinets through Known World Treasures for 300 a pop, its not cheap like stainless, but they are ROCK solid and stainless is a much better bet for loaner gear, since nobody wants to put that much TLC into loaner stuff.

Those are my ideas, YMMV

My big thing for loaner stuff is that it has to be simple, and easy to maintain gear, because otherwise it will fall into disrepair, and what you paid is worthless.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:43 am

If your new fighter really has no preference for time, place and social role, I would get a Stonekeep starter set #3 with the bascinet. Add Revival boots, a narrow leather belt, sweat pants tailored to fit like hose, a linen under-tunic and a linen surcoat and you have a nice early-to-mid-14th century man-at-arms presentation for most of western Europe.

To spiff it up later, replace the kidney belt with a leather breast-and-back curie, replace the sweats with linen braies and hose, add a mail aventail, add shinbalds and possibly even mail sabatons. For the crowning touch add a riveted-mail hauberk.

Nearly any other time/place/role can be done with a mix of visible and concealed armour, so if they have a preference please post it so we can provide better advice. If they have chosen the name Sven Svenbjornsen of Sveden with interests in international cultural exchange at spearpoint, then I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE KIT LISTED ABOVE!

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:59 am

Sean Powell wrote:
Stonekeep and Mad Matt are both on my shopping list so far. I'll have to check out James River (is he custom or off-the-shelf?) but what PIECES from which guys would you buy?

For loaner armour, I would get it all from from Matt. The floating articulation is the most flexible, size-wise, and it has a good range of motion. Matt also has pretty inexpensive torso armour, and pretty cheap Bascinets. If I REALLY wanted to go with shell articulation, I'd go with James River Armoury (armourer eric here on the AA. Linky : http://www.jamesriverarmoury.com/). His articulation is a little better than Stonekeep IMO, and his prices, especially on eBay, are awesome. I don't think he offers stainless though, if that matters to you.

And lets make it a little more chalenging, can we keep all of this stuff from the same century? A kit you could be happy with for a little while, not just 'get em on the field'.

Thanks, Sean

Matt's stuff is mostly mid-14th c. How's that?

ARMOURER ERIC · Post by **ARMOURER ERIC** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:46 am

James River Armoury stuff on ebay.

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrp ... mourereric

Eric

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:16 pm

FWIW, I'm using Eric to outfit my newbie nephew. His price son eBay are crazy good.

AriAnson · Post by **AriAnson** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:19 pm

Lead the newbies to the forums here and tell them to start reading.

Some piece of armor are relatively easy to make without much knowledge, really.

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:08 pm

Sean, check your PM's

Christopher

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:42 pm

aside from the demi-gaunts (which are going to be removed soon and replaced with simple ones based on wisby finds) my stuff is historically based and all in the same century.

If you order $1000 or more you get 10% off.

Full suits under $1000 get a discount also.

What people have said about the floating articulation is true. You can pull the sides apart or push them together and they still work fine. Also my cuisses are cut on the shorter side of things so they'll fit a larger range of sizes.

You can get coat of plates kits for $60 but if you want something cheaper I'm planning a simpler kit based on one of the wisby coats.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:11 pm

Mad Matt wrote:aside from the demi-gaunts (which are going to be removed soon and replaced with simple ones based on wisby finds) my stuff is historically based and all in the same century.

If you order $1000 or more you get 10% off.

Full suits under $1000 get a discount also.

What people have said about the floating articulation is true. You can pull the sides apart or push them together and they still work fine. Also my cuisses are cut on the shorter side of things so they'll fit a larger range of sizes.

You can get coat of plates kits for $60 but if you want something cheaper I'm planning a simpler kit based on one of the wisby coats.

I can vouche for the floating articulation. Im tiny and his arms fit me fine, they also fit fine on the large guys in my group.

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:22 am

You know,

I like Everyone that has been listed. Maelgwyn has what I think is probably the best thought here. That when someone is new, they aren't concerned about the periodness of the gear, or they have unrealistic combinations. When I started I really wanted a Landschenkt suit, it was sexy, I refined what I wanted (with my budget) and came up with a reasonable 14th century kit.

Freiman (I believe) had a pic on here a while ago of an old can helm painted with pink letters L O A N E R...that combined with the pink gauntlet guarantees that the stuff will not get feet. It is embarassing to wear though!

I think if Newbies can start to make their own gear, they appreciate the work more and take ownership right away. That is what I try to do with knees, elbows and sapulders. Buy decent helms and make up the rest.

Blk_jouster · Post by **Blk_jouster** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:28 pm

If they're willing to work on their own kits I'd recommend Cet from the archive here. his rough from the hammer brestplate kits are very well made and take a minimum ammount of work to shape trim and strap. As well as being relatively inexpensive yet not cheaply made.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:26 am

IF you're simply doing a set of loaner gear for the sake of loaner gear and not pursuing a real kit here is my cheap and easy list.

Plastic Cherburg 13 style breastplate-- takes about 4 hours to build with sufficient coffee/beer and smoke breaks.

Street hockey knees and elbows with plastic riveted wings.

Long "horsemans coat" style gambeson with extra leg padding.

Generic gorget from leather.

Cheapest helmet you can acquire.

Leather vambraces and shoulders. (padded)

This is the quick dirty loaner gear. It's not demo appearance nor is it meant to be something where new folks want to "hang on to it for a while"
It is however meant as a stop gap until they complete their own kit that fits them correctly etc. In essence about the third time they wear the stuff listed above, They will be sick of the bruising, lack of great movement and overall feel and get their own...