History Guys, would this pass as a Roman Calv. Helm?

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:14 pm

It is almost finished and I was wondering if it is going to be worth the effort.

Thanks,

Hal

Ps: Would a white pony tail be ok?

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:16 pm

It looks an awful lot like one. Perhaps one that has been modified by a later local craftsman.

kersme · Post by **kersme** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:21 pm

that just looks great... :shock:

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:30 pm

Thanks guys.

I think I will start over again and build hinges for the cheek plates.
These are rigidity attached and do not cup the face right.
If I bend them in I cannot get it over my head.

Next time I will use 18ga. metal the 14ga. is a bit too heavy.

Hal

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:59 pm

It's a ridge style, but its seems a little styleistic in the nasal (looks more coopergate) and cheeks (they should close). Is it a round top? It looks more oval in the pic.

As it is, I'd say less Roman and more sub-Roman.

A beaver-tail would go a long way toward bringing it back, or put mail on the back and go more sub-Roman, fringe culture.

Sexy though.

[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Roman/Ridge1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Roman/RidgeDeurne.JPG[/img]

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:48 pm

Halberds wrote:Next time I will use 18ga. metal the 14ga. is a bit too heavy.

Hal

For an SCA helm, 14g is the way to go. Even 12 for the dome, if you can. My 14g dome is dented all to hell, 16 would of caved in on me by now.. 18g, and I would be dead.

Besides, I think 16g is the minimum.

olaf haraldson · Post by **olaf haraldson** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 am

I wasn't under the assumption that this WAS an SCA helm...

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:45 am

It will not be for SCA. :wink:

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:16 am

In the examples I've seen the ear holes were more oval, the fact that this is perfectly round looks strange to my eye. D. Sebastian is right about everything he said, except that the cheek plates do not always meet, though they do always curve with the face in that manner.

The nasal does look like it was taken off a coopergate, however, that's not a bad thing, since nobody woke up one day and decided to do a whole new style of helm, and reconstructions (guesses) at the transitional forms are some of the coolest helmets I've seen.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:19 am

I've never seen the cheeks not hinged.
I'd love to if you have an example!

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:34 am

I've never seen one without hinges either, I didn't meant to imply otherwise. Although, there was obviously some point in the evolution that they lost their hinges, the question then becomes semantic, when does a late Roman helm become an early Coopergate helm...

Tascius · Post by **Tascius** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:36 am

I notice you have a ring on the top of the helm. Not for this helm. (The Deir el Medineh spangen helm had one but no ridge helms did.)

I think you will find this data base helpful. (page 9)

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

[/img]

Tascius · Post by **Tascius** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:52 am

On hinges for Roman helms. The hinges are a given. Sometimes the hinges are metal and visable, sometimes they are leather and hidden behind a panel.
[img]http://tijkools.nl/Peel_Helm_175.jpg[/img]

On the Duerne helm (above) the hinges are hidden and protected by the brassy bronze strip you can see to either side of the eye cut-outs. This picture does not show the back neck guard (it is hidden by a velvet covered stand)

Here is a good repro. http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=13244

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:08 am

Thanks for the pics and link.
What a wealth of information.

I for sure, have to start over again now.
So the Coppergate came after the Romans went home?

Hal

Primvs Pavlvs · Post by **Primvs Pavlvs** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:18 am

Halberds wrote:So the Coppergate came after the Romans went home?

Hal

Yes, it came after the Romans left the building.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:04 pm

Halberds wrote:It will not be for SCA.

Oh, my mistake. Must of mis-read it the first time through.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:01 pm

Omar,

I guess it would be simple enough to add a bar grill and some back slats but I wasnâ€™t fixing to.

This one is all 14ga. and quite heavy.
I was trying to do something more historical.
That is why I will have to start over now, I think I missed the mark.

Hey... It looks nice on my work shop shelf anyway. :wink:

Hal

Tascius · Post by **Tascius** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:07 pm

Give it a good bar grill and a short rigid back plate. Hang a neck guard from that plate and you will have a really nice SCA Roman ridge helm. Heck I'd buy it but I've allready got one! (At 14G it would seem to be a bit light but the extra metal in the banding would toughen it up.)

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:52 pm

Definately has a late Roman/Migration era feel to it. I like it!

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:01 pm

Thanks for the input guys. This is how I learn more.
Here is a different pic view:

I think I will take it to work displayed with a dark maile coif on my skull head helm stand.

The desk jockeys will eat it up.
I can tell them that it is a:
Stylistic Post Roman British Helm Looking Thing.

Think that will work?

Hal

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:08 am

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:15 am

Nice work Hal!

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:05 am

oop!
Found another I forgot I had.

[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Byzantine/Ridge%20helm%20with%20cru-cut-plume2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://warriorsofhistory.com/research/Byzantine/Ridge%20helm%20with%20cru-cut-plume%201.jpg[/img]

Wolf,
Can't wait to get home and open those links!