Late Roman Belt

[Omar]

I know the Roman habit of highly decorated military belts comes from the days of the republic, through the Empire, and to the fall of the empire. Having made a military belt from around 100AD or so with stamped brass plates, I wanted to try something similar with my later period kit. Kinda like this:

http://www.quietpress.com/RomanGermanic_Belt.html

http://www.comitatus.net/trooptypes.htm (various pictures)

My question is, does anyone know what the little rings hanging at the bottom of the belt are for? I am guessing hanging a weapon from (like the #5 - unarmored infantryman from the second link), but what sort? The swords were hung of baldrics over the shoulder I believe.

Also, does anyone know why it shifted from the thinner and heavily plated belts to the wider and less decorated belts? They put the strips in them as stiffeners and decoration, but why the shift?

I have not been able to find any pictures of historical finds of these type of belts, so if anyone has info on that, I would appreciate it.


Thanks!

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Omar,

The common thought is that the loops were probably used to suspend small knives, and small bags. However, this is only a theory, they could be used only for decoration. I used mine to support a small bag with a flint and steel fire starting kit, and a small belt knife.

The very wide belts start appearing in the mid to late 4th century, and fade very early in the 5th. They are not a fashion that lasted very long. After speaking with Holger Ratsdorf I am convienced that the belts were made from two layers of thin garmet weight leather instead of one thicker piece of leather.

I highly suggest picking up Bishop and Coulstons book Roman Military Equipment.

I have made 4 of these belts, and two of them incorporated pieces from Raymond. You should be aware that Raymonds pieces look nice, but they are no where near correct. If you need any help in picking parts, or advice on other sources let me know.

[Omar]

Let me tell you about what I am doing with this. I have been interested in the late roman empire for several years, but there was no way to really do that in the SCA with heavy combat. So, when I got started with rapier, I figured "hey, why not do late roman, not like they wore armor anyway"

I have the coptic tunic as armor, possibly with a suit of chain later if I can get one, just for the look. The belt was next.

I have some thinner 4oz leather, or would that be too thick?

For the fittings, other than the rings on the bottom and the buckle, I had planned to make myself. Do some chase work on brass plates for the stiffeners or such. Thats why I was asking what has been found, so I can use that for a basis with my design.

With the two layers of leather rather than the one thicker one, how would you keep them together? Why do you believe that was used instead? Is there some advantage to it?

[Primvs Pavlvs]

I have some thinner 4oz leather, or would that be too thick?


With the two layers of leather rather than the one thicker one, how would you keep them together? Why do you believe that was used instead? Is there some advantage to it?

I have seen one report find on a 4th century belt that had leather remains, and it was constructed of two layers of leather. It covered in decorative stitching, and thats what held it together.

I also had a dicussion with Holger Ratsdorf (http://www.hr-replikate.de) regarding late Roman belts this past summer, and he has drawn the same conclusion that the belts were more than likely made from two layers. He has also made a wonder reconstruction of the belt I was speaking of. I need to find the copy of the report.


Two layers of 4oz would be much heavier than what Holger used on his reconstruction. I would go ahead and make the belt with one layer from this. Possibly I would line the belt with a heavy linen.

Heres a couple links to belts I have made.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... roman+belt

[Omar]

Pictures are dead on that site.

I might go with the thicker leather (probably 6-8oz, or whatever my current belt is made from) for now and come back to make something more authentic later.

Info on the design and materials of the stiffeners, buckles, and fittings would be great.

[Primvs Pavlvs]

Pictures are dead on that site.

I might go with the thicker leather (probably 6-8oz, or whatever my current belt is made from) for now and come back to make something more authentic later.

Info on the design and materials of the stiffeners, buckles, and fittings would be great.

Omar here is the first belt I ever made from Raymonds pieces.

http://w10.eleven2.com/~joorthuy/rat/vi ... e2c1799a9d

[Omar]

Very nice! I think I need to join that forum myself.

Will probably have some questions for you in the next week or two, when I get done with current projects and can focus on new ones.

Thanks!

[Omar]

Ok, I reviewed your thread on the RAT forum, and rather than posting there (where the last post was a year and a half ago) I figured I would post here.

I have a side of 8oz leather, or thereabout. Its SCA 'combat' thickness, though I would want to harden it if I used it for armor. So, I think it would work well.

Looks like you used RB-23 from Raymonds Quiet Press:
http://www.quietpress.com/Roman_Brooche ... lt_Fi.html

The brass stiffeners are the ones you said you bought and made yourself. How thick are they? I have some 16g and some 14g brass on hand that I use for medallions and such that I could cut into strips and decorate.

I like the stitching, but I have never seen any evidence for this. In fact, most of the decorative elements I cant find much first hand info on. No pictures, articles, anything. I am running off of the two Late Roman Osprey books and "The Roman Legions in Colour Photographs" book with 2-3 pages of late roman stuff.

Would like to make something and be able to enter it into an upcoming A&S competition, but want to make sure its as accurate as possible. Any info you can help with would be REALLY appreciated. Just point me in a direction.

[Tascius]

If you are making one of the wider belts that need stiffeners, you will want to re-enforce those with plates located on the underside of the belt. SCA combat is pretty rough on stiffeners. I outta know, all the propeller stiffeners on my belt are heavily bowed and some have ripped through the leather. I bend them back every so often but that starts cracks in the metal.

[Omar]

This is for rapier and decorative use.. though I did think about a heavy kit this afternoon. I scrapped the idea though, I am not ready to go out and fight without a bit more armor quite yet...