Patrick Thaden Video questions

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:36 am

I have a question regarding the hammer that Patrick Thaden was using for the most part of the sallet raising process (The DVD).
It is obviously a raising hammer, but what weight and what brand?
I am thinking a PEDDINGHAUS? And maybe around the 18 oz range???

Also, where in the world did he get those massive steel balls??? :lol:

Seriously, all I have been able to get were shotputs which are maybe 3" diameter. Is it necessary to have such big balls, or does it just make the process easier??? (I can't seem to make that not sound dirty :oops:

)

Any input would be grande as I am getting ready to take my test copper wok-shaped thing to the next phase of raising now that I have actually seen the process start to finish. After that I'll do steel.

Thanks mucho grande'

Phillip

Armoured Air Bear · Post by **Armoured Air Bear** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:43 am

I think I can answer these.

the huge ball was actually a wrecking ball (I think 8" diameter)-according to Talbot-whos it is.

I have seen similar automotive body work hammers up for sale on ebay. just start looking up automotive or body working hammers and narrow it from there.

god I love to raise copper-moves like butter. it moves as easy as hot metal while cold. if one were to work it hot I can;t even image how giving it would be.

Aaron

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:04 am

Deathbird wrote: (I can't seem to make that not sound dirty :oops: )
Phillip

No surprise really. That's because it IS dirty!... and hot.. and noisy...and exhausting.....

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:13 am

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?item ... pe=PRODUCT
[img]http://www.eastwoodco.com/images/us//local/products/detail/p896.jpg[/img]

Signo · Post by **Signo** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:14 am

As I know, Patrick is able to make those balls simply grabbing a bunch of firescale and applying a pressure with his bare hands :lol:

Kase Villand · Post by **Kase Villand** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:21 am

A larger-diameter ball isn't necessary, but it sure does make the process easier. Giles has a 6" steel hemisphere welded to a rough stand, and it's perfect for 80% of the rough raising work on a helm- a human head isn't spherical, but just getting it raised around that ball will get you awfully close.

Someone linked to a website that sells solid steel balls up to 6" diameter. I don't know what keywords to search for to locate it... I came up empty. Someone else may remember better than I.

Kase

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:31 am

Deathbird,

Seriously, the exact weight and size of the hammer is not that important. Try every hammer you own , and you will soon find which ones work and which ones don't, and which ones would work if you reground the faces some.

Our idea of "raising hammer" comes from silversmith's techniques. But, we are not doing the same thing as they are. If the silversmiths who wrote those books we've all read could see us working thick steel over a huge ball stake with, spot heating with a torch, they would be shocked.

I personally do most of my helmet raising with hammers with round faces, rather than cross peens. (any silversmiths out there will wont to sit down and have a drink now)

I think it's important not to "fetishize" this hammer thing.

Mac

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:34 am

Aaron: That is precisely why I chose copper so that I can easily see what is happening i.e. bad crimps and physical movement... sometimes it actually moves too fast :lol:

Mac: I don't know how he does it for that long... a few hours in and I lose high level control of the hammer and have to stop.

Hal: That does look like it... but I'm not sure if the faces are that crowned or convex on his??

Kase: Interetsing... I wonder if a pipe cap welded onto a dogleg would work in the same sort of fashion...

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:37 am

Mac: Are you the Mac of Robert MacPherson variety by chance??? :shock:

Recovery moment...

I guess I was under the impression that the hammer face shape assisted with the directional movement of the metal... i.e. keeps it moving mostly on two planes as opposed to omni-directional movement.

Is that a fallicy?

Phillip

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:07 am

http://www.kingmetals.com/default.aspx? ... mcode=14-4

Yes, it is the same hammer.
He ground and polished mine just like his, I am blessed.

Hal

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:17 am

OMG... Hal, you really know where the big balls hang out :lol:

An old AC/DC tune comes to mind...

Thanks for the link!

^ · Post by ^ » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:56 am

Patrick Thaden doesn't use hammers he hits the the steel with his bare knuckles.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:58 am

Deathbird wrote:Mac: Are you the Mac of Robert MacPherson variety by chance??? :shock: Phillip

The same

Deathbird wrote:I guess I was under the impression that the hammer face shape assisted with the directional movement of the metal... i.e. keeps it moving mostly on two planes as opposed to omni-directional movement.

Is that a fallicy?
Phillip

It's not a fallacy, but it's a bit overrated in this context.

In helmet raising, I find the marginally lesser efficiency of the round face to be more than offset by its versatility. With a cross peen, you must either use the heel or the toe, and constantly orient your work to allow for this. With a round face you can use any quadrant of the face that suits you, at that instant, without reorienting the work.

Mac

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:07 am

Mac, first off, let me say I AM NOT WORTHY!!!! :shock:

I will certainly take your advise and try it with both types to observe the difference... as copper should allow me to see what is happening more readily than steel (And without all that heat and smoke and sulfurous oaths sworn in long-dead tongues)

Now the round face hammers you typically use... can you describe the surface (other than shiney ;-)

slightly conxex, totally flat??

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my post

Phillip

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:48 am

Phillip,

Here are a couple of pics. The one is of the hammer I usually grab for helmet work. The other is the face of the same. This hammer weighs about 27 oz., including the handle.

The most important thing is that the edges are round enough not to scar the surface. The edges are doing most of the work. The face is only slightly domed, and serves to smooth the surface after the edge has driven it down.

I sometimes have cause to flip it over and use the cross peen, but it's a little harsh, and must be applied with care.

I frequently use this same hammer as a heavy plannisher: again flying in the face of orthodoxy.

I hope this is helpful.

Mac

Deathbird · Post by **Deathbird** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:57 am

Beautiful Mac,

That is precisely what I was looking for.

Thank you,

Phillip

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:33 pm

Thanks for the pics.

Jantien van Vranckenvoert · Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:59 pm

OKay, Hal has the balls....who's got the donuts?

MacGowan Metals · Post by **MacGowan Metals** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:08 pm

again flying in the face of orthodoxy

I love a man who's willing to prove orthodoxy wrong.

Thanks for the pics Mac. And the information of raising with a round faced hammer.

Will soon be trying that.

Jason Smith

Padrig · Post by **Padrig** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:58 am

I am sorry, I can't help on the raising part.

Just bragging that the salet in question is proudly displayed in my living room.

Pad

Eamonn MacCampbell · Post by **Eamonn MacCampbell** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:30 am

Padrig wrote:I am sorry, I can't help on the raising part.

Just bragging that the salet in question is proudly displayed in my living room.

Pad

And don't think those of us who lusted over that helm have forgotten that either...you braggart...

Some day, I will send the flying monkey ninjas when you least expect it... :twisted:

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:25 am

you might also want to look at this thread----->hat raising video questions/answers

Patrick Thaden Video questions

Patrick Thaden Video questions

Re: Patrick Thaden Video questions