ChainMail Hanging Orientation

RictherBelmont · Post by **RictherBelmont** » Sat May 03, 2003 2:10 am

Ive been making Alot of chain Mail in small sections(6x6), larger and smaller, in hopes of makign a huerbak shirt or the like.

However, Im debating which direction to make the sheets go for the body and sleves of the piece.

[img]http://members.aol.com/rictherbelmont/chainmaile.jpg[/img]

I want to run it with the red arrow paralell to the verticle, however the pattern on the blade turner archive amoung others says the green d should be at the top instead of the red A if that makes sense.

I find it more elegant hanging in the direction that the pic shows. Is there really any reason to do other wise?

[This message has been edited by RictherBelmont (edited 05-03-2003).]

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Sat May 03, 2003 3:40 am

As far as I know, all extant shirts run it with the d-c line vertically and most continue that out along the sleeve. The historical precedent is not there for hanging it the way you would prefer.

Also, hanging it with the a-b line vetically causes the weave to open up and stiffen more than hanging it the other way.

Erik

Uryen · Post by **Uryen** » Sat May 03, 2003 4:28 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I find it more elegant hanging in the direction that the pic shows. Is there really any reason to do other wise?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because otherwise you wont be able to get it off and on, without it being 4 sizes too big for you.

Patrick Sain · Post by **Patrick Sain** » Sat May 03, 2003 10:50 pm

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

Hung the way you have ut shown, the maille will hang stiff. Hung the other way, it will conform to the person wearing it and be able to expand and move easier.

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Been there; Done that; Made the hauberk.

Armadillo Highway/Knitting Steel

Caesar_Salad · Post by **Caesar_Salad** » Sat May 03, 2003 11:41 pm

in one way you would have to make 45 degree seams so it is a little harder but the other way it doesn't fit the body as well, I don't know any other pro's and con's, sorry

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--The pen may be mightier than the sword but my sword is longer than you pen-is--Caesar_Salad

lacheadon · Post by **lacheadon** » Sun May 04, 2003 3:55 am

The C-D is the only historic option I have seen and it also has the advantages of fitting better and allowing fuller movement. On an untested hypotheiacl note, the C-D weave would allow a verticly angled shot to slid down the maille while the A-B weave would make it catch

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Caesar_Salad:
in one way you would have to make 45 degree seams so it is a little harder but the other way it doesn't fit the body as well, I don't know any other pro's and con's, sorry

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, there are no 45 degree seams on the historical shirts I've seen, although I believe that a couple may exist.

Erik

lacheadon · Post by **lacheadon** » Sun May 04, 2003 7:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Erik Schmidt:
 No, there are no 45 degree seams on the historical shirts I've seen, although I believe that a couple may exist.

Erik<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are there any suits with the B-C sleeves at all? I have seen A-B versions and it is easy enough to do without a 45 seam.

bexter12 · Post by **bexter12** » Sun May 04, 2003 8:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Erik Schmidt:
 No, there are no 45 degree seams on the historical shirts I've seen, although I believe that a couple may exist.

Erik<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not in shirts, but there are several mantels I have seen that use 45 seams to connect two pieces. Cleveland has one and I spent a half an hour counting the rings on the seam to make sure it was 45.

That one had 3 visible 45 seams and I'm assuming one on the back.

bex (who wonders why museums don't put mirrors behind their armour so you can see the back, too.)

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"Anything worth doing is worth doing obsessively."
Becky's Armour Pages: http://bexter.adkinssoftware.com

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:12 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by RictherBelmont:
Ive been making Alot of chain Mail in small sections(6x6). . . I want to run it with the red arrow paralell to the verticle, however the pattern on the blade turner archive amoung others says the green d should be at the top instead of the red A if that makes sense.

I find it more elegant hanging in the direction that the pic shows. Is there really any reason to do other wise?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allow me to add my voice to the chorus, Richther: you want it to hang the other way than what you show in your pic. Not only will the other way allow you to get out of your shirt when you want to, it will allow your shirt to be lighter also because you are not shlepping extra poundage of links, which is a real consideration in butted mail. As for the elegance you desire, a resilient-dimension-horizontal hang of the weave will allow the shirt to tailor itself to your form while also allowing free movement -- if that isn't elegant, I don't know what is. E4:1-weave mail such as you are making has such an ability to expand and contract that it opens up for you when you want to get it off, and closes to form-fit with you when you are wearing it. You can make the body tube of your shirt out of a simple rectangle, with no expansions or contractions. The body tube's circumference should be your chest measurement plus 10 inches, maybe plus 12 if you are still growing. That's really the only critical measurement for your byrnie/shirt/haburgeon/hauberk. It has to be big enough around to get past the widest part of you and it needs some bit of slack to keep from binding you. Extending your sleeves off the shoulder straps works okay for short sleeves. I happen not to like it much myself, but that's just me; I like my mail resilient rows to go around my arms, not down them.

Shoulder straps should be set three inches wider apart on the back of the shirt than on the front, to keep from having the sleeves bind your arms from swinging forward and across -- your sleeves need a modest forward bias.

Resilient rows horizontal aids you directly when it comes time to remove your shirt, because people new to mail tend to forget one thing: mail's dragginess. Pulling it off like a sweater is extremely difficult, but with the right technique, no problem. First, remove the tight-cinched belt that's been putting some of the weight of the shirt upon your hips rather than have it all hanging on your shoulders making you all slumped and stoopy. Then bend over at the waist. Your shirt will immediately open up to its full stretch, giving you room to depart your armor. Crossing your wrists, grab the collar of your shirt and start tugging it over your head; bending down a bit more will help get things moving. As you tug, do the shimmy. Gravity is your friend and your mailshirt will slide over your head and end up in a silvery puddle of links at your feet. Straighten, smile at the load you've taken off, and fingercomb your hair if you have any, 'cos mail-hair is a mess!

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"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Mon May 05, 2003 7:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by lacheadon:
Are there any suits with the B-C sleeves at all? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I presume you mean D-C.
I don't know.
The hang of the mail on the sleeves depends very much on whether the arms are outstretched or hanging down by the sides.
All the shirts I've seen have sleeves with the weave integral to the body. I don't recall seeing a shirt with a 45 deg. seam at the sleeves, but there are many examples I have as yet not seen.

Erik