Size matters? - SCA heavy combat

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:06 am

I've been in and around the SCA for years now and one of the first things I noticed was that, especially on the lyst field, I'm a pretty small guy at 5'-10", 140. This has lead to a few problems during heavily-massed melees, lol, but I indeed expected that.

Some quick examples off the top of my head concerning people of a smaller stature that excel; Count Yoan of Trimaris, Duchess Eanor from the Middle, persons from the Archive like our dear Robyn. I'm friends with Count Yoan and indeed he is a shining example of what someone smaller in stature can do. I want to put him at about 5'-6" but he probably outweighs me by 25 pounds, regardless the man is superhuman and has the spine of a Slinky, but for those of us that aren't superhumanly gifted, what do you do to counter the size issue?

Others out there, speak up!
Who of smaller stature inspires you?
What are some of your tricks for dealing with the bigger boys (and of course, ladies)?
How do you excel during huge melees?

Share your stories, I'm genuinely curious.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:01 am

Sir Vitus is short.........and he levitates.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:31 am

Dukes Cariadoc and Akbar come to mind, and my own knight, Sir Aelfwine.

Cariadoc is still a stout tank - steady, consistent and with an uncanny ability to misguide you as to what his reach really is. I don't know if he can still jump up and hit 6 foot tall opponents on the back of their heads, but he could :shock:

He also made excellent use of ducking below an opponent's line of sight.

Akbar - titanium framework with carbon fiber musculature. From his knees, he could fight laying back with his helm an inch off the ground. It drew you in, and when he launched himself like some kind of human catapult, you were not likely to get back fast enough to escape. Very agile, very fast.

Aelfwine - Muscle to weight ratio of a bird. Only person I have ever seen sit down with his legs crossed and then *run* after people (how the hell do you run on your butt cheeks ?!?! :shock:

). Once killed at Pennsic by "an anti-aircraft halberd". Would curl up behind a 30 inch long katana and charge on one leg.

All of them were very quick, distinguished from fast. All understood how to build expectations in an opponent and then exploit them.

Part of my dislike of greatsword comes from the way Cariadoc would get me to raise my guard to block head shots and then duck below my vision, step around behind me and run a series of taps right up my back.

More currently, Sir Tanaka Raiko has a knack for getting much of his legal target zone down below the height of my knees. I find it hard to hit targets that low to the ground, but he has no problem about striking up from down there. He'll change elevation as part of the approach to range process, keeping my targeting computer busy adjusting instead of swinging.

blackbow · Post by **blackbow** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:14 am

see my most recent post in

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=87925

JB

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:30 am

Duke Aaron of Ansteorra isn't very tall... 5'7" or so. He's a badger. An assassin badger.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:32 am

Duke Alaric is, what, 150 lbs soaking wet?
One of the finest fighters I know.

Iron Dwarf - nuf said.

Master Tearloch - he will hit you with that polearm. It will hurt. Your sheild will not help you.

:wink:

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:42 am

Physically I'm "tall" (5 ft 11 inches), "big" (191 lbs) and in very good shape.

Routinely I get defeated on the SCA battlefield, so much in fact that I recently reacted with shock and did a lot of introspection when I won 3 out of 3 against someone. I felt odd because I so rarely win.

Usually it's a mind game. I've been defeated before I'm out there sometimes.

I'm working on changing my mind for this game and find ways of convincing my opponent to lose for me.

With respect,

-Aaron

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:04 pm

D. Sebastian wrote:Duke Alaric is, what, 150 lbs soaking wet?
One of the finest fighters I know.

Iron Dwarf - nuf said.

Master Tearloch - he will hit you with that polearm. It will hurt. Your sheild will not help you.

hmm.. Tearloch - "small" ? ok, by the Guido scale, yeah. Otherwise, nooo.

And Tearloch is a good reason for not using a shield :twisted:

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:29 pm

John The Mad celt- duke

Richard de Cuinon- duke

Daffyd ap Gwlycmy- Viscount

Valerius Pencalvis- Count

Alric- Duke

FElix- duke (not that short though)

Simyaka- Duke

Terrach- not that short either but skinny- Duke

Robert Glendon of Auk- Duke (i think)

All guys around my size, all royal peers

fight your fight in your body, work hard. You'll get better.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:05 pm

Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace - 5'10", @150 lbs , uses his feet and remarkable flexibility, in great shape (or will be again, he's recovering from spinal fusion surgery), fights spear in melee, otherwise two-sword.

Count Romanius - like 5'3" or so? very small, super patient, waits for his moment, maintains an excellent defense

Me - 5'8", @200 lbs - almost all my opponents are bigger than I am. I use pure tenacity and the firm belief that I can overcome any obstacle. In melee and when someone bigger tries to bull me about, I drop my center. I usually fight in the sheildwall. I believe that improving my footwork will take me to the next level. I work on a tight defense and I am working on being patient and waiting for my moment, then going offensive.

Dafydd · Post by **Dafydd** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:52 pm

One of the most skillful, resounding blows I've ever been on the receiving end of was dealt by Duke Christopher of Houghton, who is not a large man at all. This was a month or two before I received the Accolade, so I was getting to be reasonably competent. Duke Christopher really "sold" me on a leg fake, the kind where you do a quick but pretty deep dip of the sword shoulder...then fired off a rising snap. He executed the shot with absolutely perfect mechanics and targeting, and he really burned it in there.* This was over 25 years ago, and I still remember that shot.

On the other end of the scale, I fondly remember fighting Earl Glyn ap Rhodri, mka Glenn Parker, former NFL star and now a sports commentator. 6'8", and about 290 at that time. Fighters that big often have some serious disadvantages: not real fast and they present a big target area. Glyn, on the other hand, was very fast indeed and terrifyingly light on his feet for a man of that size (or any size, actually).

While there are probably upper and lower bounds, within reason, size is of trivial concern compared to technique, training, and having the right sort of mind for this game.

*When somewhat apologetically explaining why he hit that hard, Duke Christopher paid me a wonderful compliment: "I know you wouldn't leave that opening for more than a moment, so I was trying to get it there fast!" =)

Hubert · Post by **Hubert** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:48 pm

Morgan wrote:Duke Aaron of Ansteorra isn't very tall... 5'7" or so. He's a badger. An assassin badger.

Isn't Sir Romanius smaller than Duke Aaron? He has (or had I haven't played in going on a few years now so not sure if he's still active) the fastest reflexes I've ever seen.

edit: Audax mentioned him above, man I've been out long enough I didn't even know he won crown

. Romanius is a master at fighting bigger fighters.

David S · Post by **David S** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:13 pm

This is something I've been giving a lot of thought to as I get back into rattan combat. I am not an especially big or strong guy myself (5'8 160), but one thing I do have going for me is that I am very fast.

Of course, in order to exploit my innate ability and overcome physical shortcomings, I am going to have to learn some actual technique first...

Ceawlin Alreding · Post by **Ceawlin Alreding** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:56 pm

I'm about a foot taller than my knight, and I'm about 6'2".
Pat taught dance before he joined the SCA and it's all about the feet, man.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:24 pm

Ceawlin Alreding wrote:I'm about a foot taller than my knight, and I'm about 6'2".
Pat taught dance before he joined the SCA and it's all about the feet, man.

ALL ABOUT THE FEET

QFT

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:55 pm

I am an avergae hight but extremely slender. There is a Lady Alys who fights in my Canton who gave me a lot of good advice in fighting melees when one has less body mass. Largely it is physics, if you do the right movements at the right time you can stop and even push people three times your weight, I did at Pennsic.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:40 pm

Ceawlin Alreding wrote: it's all about the feet, man.

+2

Vlasta · Post by **Vlasta** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:57 am

Sir Bovrick(sp?) of An Tir comes to mind. She may not reach 5' tall, and is slender. However fighting her is like fighting a blender. I've seen her throw an off body shot then step completely behind the other fighter and throw the next blow to their back as fast as I could throw two snaps. Then there was the time she stepped in between Master Grendel and his own shield and waited for him to look down....

Duke James Greyhelm is, I think, 5'6", left handed and slender. He won the crown in the West 8 times.

Eua · Post by **Eua** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:30 am

Vlasta wrote:Sir Bovrick(sp?) of An Tir comes to mind. Then there was the time she stepped in between Master Grendel and his own shield and waited for him to look down....

i would love to see that!

I'm 5'6" and although I don't have a problem facing a charge or being in one in a melee (like everyone else has said, footwork footwork footwork!), I've had to work to get enough power behind a shot in tourney format. Although I had no problem hitting a pell with enough force, when I was fighting a live opponent it didn't transfer. I wasn't using my hips, hell, even my foot stance, correctly. That's changed recently and I *think* the difference has been throwing shots while I move, rather than staying planted. It makes me throw from the hip more naturally. [I should give a shout-out to Duke Alaric for helping me with that initially]

Dafydd · Post by **Dafydd** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:54 am

Vlasta wrote:Duke James Greyhelm is, I think, 5'6", left handed and slender.

And isn't a kid anymore...and is STILL a very, very dangerous man to face!

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:54 am

Morgan wrote:Duke Aaron of Ansteorra isn't very tall... 5'7" or so. He's a badger. An assassin badger.

An assassin badger with powers of teleportation.