I remeber looking through Norman's Silk Road site and seeing a drawing of a Mongol in Banded Armour.
I have looked through my references and cant find anything remotely like it.
Does anyone have any sources on banded armour ....and hopefully specificly Steppes armour?
Sources for banded armour?
The evidence for banded armour seems somewhat scarce, and some armour historians doubt it's existance altogether. There are some pictures of armour which seems to be made from bands, however it may just be a lazy version of lammellar. It usually seems to go round the torso and has mail over the shoulders.
I came up in a discussion I had with him on the public forum under Khazar armour and weapons.
I came up in a discussion I had with him on the public forum under Khazar armour and weapons.
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Russ Mitchell
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Wulfgar Davinsson
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I'm waiting for "the" book on the subject, it should be here in a few days.
As for "armour of bands" I remain unconvinced so far. In my opinion, the armour that appears as "bands" in petroglyphs and period art are just as likely to be lamellar covered in cloth. I think that the appearance of "bands" may be similar to the depiction of "maille" in western art. Artists take shortcuts.
That said however, as far as I know, there's no evidence either way. Maybe my new book will shed some light on the subject, I'll post here if it does.
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
As for "armour of bands" I remain unconvinced so far. In my opinion, the armour that appears as "bands" in petroglyphs and period art are just as likely to be lamellar covered in cloth. I think that the appearance of "bands" may be similar to the depiction of "maille" in western art. Artists take shortcuts.
That said however, as far as I know, there's no evidence either way. Maybe my new book will shed some light on the subject, I'll post here if it does.
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
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Wulfgar Davinsson
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"Arms of the Sakas and Other Tribes of the Central Asian Steppes"
Chapter 8 of the book is dedicated solely to the armour in use for this region.
I'll post here if it has anything relevant to say about banded armour.
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
Chapter 8 of the book is dedicated solely to the armour in use for this region.
I'll post here if it has anything relevant to say about banded armour.
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
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Wulfgar Davinsson
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So.. book has arrived (yay!)
From what I can glean from the book, the author interprets the "bands" as lamellar. He breaks the main types of Central Asian armous as:
1) Plate. The "reverse" brigandine type armours, as well as lamellar armours with larger plates augmenting the armour. The author's opinion is that the larger "plate" armours are a far Eastern convention. One picture dated to 433 BC (or "BCE", whatever the hell you like) shows a warrior wearing armour described as "plate armour reached down to the knee, had a high stiff collar to safeguard the neck and the throat four or five rows of rectangular lamellae, three broad plates in front of the breast and both the arms covered by twelve ring formed plates at the sleeves.
(some of the language used in the book is...awkward, but easily understandable when the plates and photographs are used)
Basically, this picture shows a pretty standard lamellar coat with the additon of three plates on the chest, not unlike (IMHO) the top three plates on the inside of a Wisby CoP.
2) Scale and Lamellar armours, which are without a doubt the most plentiful armours to be found in the region. Again, the author's view is that these are more plentiful in the Near Eastern areas.
3) Other types of armour:
Mail, of which finds are rare.
Greaves: the majority of finds which are believed to be "Greek". Two Scythian greaves found, one of which is "13 iron bars, fixed on leather, 20 to 25 cm in length which had lashes to fasten it to the legs"
Armour Belts: found in Western Steppes
He goes on to talk about horse armour and shields as well.
The plates in the books that depict banded armour seem to be though of as lamellar, though nowhere that I have seen in the last few hours does it state that this IS lamellar and NOT banded armour.
So, I guess, in the end.. the answer is...
Maybe?
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>
From what I can glean from the book, the author interprets the "bands" as lamellar. He breaks the main types of Central Asian armous as:
1) Plate. The "reverse" brigandine type armours, as well as lamellar armours with larger plates augmenting the armour. The author's opinion is that the larger "plate" armours are a far Eastern convention. One picture dated to 433 BC (or "BCE", whatever the hell you like) shows a warrior wearing armour described as "plate armour reached down to the knee, had a high stiff collar to safeguard the neck and the throat four or five rows of rectangular lamellae, three broad plates in front of the breast and both the arms covered by twelve ring formed plates at the sleeves.
(some of the language used in the book is...awkward, but easily understandable when the plates and photographs are used)
Basically, this picture shows a pretty standard lamellar coat with the additon of three plates on the chest, not unlike (IMHO) the top three plates on the inside of a Wisby CoP.
2) Scale and Lamellar armours, which are without a doubt the most plentiful armours to be found in the region. Again, the author's view is that these are more plentiful in the Near Eastern areas.
3) Other types of armour:
Mail, of which finds are rare.
Greaves: the majority of finds which are believed to be "Greek". Two Scythian greaves found, one of which is "13 iron bars, fixed on leather, 20 to 25 cm in length which had lashes to fasten it to the legs"
Armour Belts: found in Western Steppes
He goes on to talk about horse armour and shields as well.
The plates in the books that depict banded armour seem to be though of as lamellar, though nowhere that I have seen in the last few hours does it state that this IS lamellar and NOT banded armour.
So, I guess, in the end.. the answer is...
Maybe?
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<I>Wulfgar Davinsson inn Gerpir af Ey-vist
Squired to Duke Davin Steingrimmson </I>