Leatherworker Question

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:15 am

I am the new guy, so I have some new guy questions.

I am currently teaching myself how to make armor from leather. I have been experimenting with water hardening and the like and after some trial and error and much research I am proud to say that its coming along better than I thought it would.

At this point I am pretty much just trying to put myself in solid enough gear to get on the SCA field. I will save learning how to tool and what not for later.

Anyways, on to the question.

I was making a pair of bracers recently out of 10oz vegetable tanned leather. I cut them to fit, punched and grommeted them, and laced them up to let them sit and take some form for a few days. This part of the process worked out great.

Now comes the hard part. Boiling them so they will take on that nice hardened feature that actually makes them armor.

I have to be honest, I ruined the crap out of the first one. I found out quickly that setting a timer and just dropping a bracer into the simmering water IS NOT a good idea. Yup, it came out looking somewhat like a leather burrito.

Round two. I get some tongs and experiment with submerging my bracer in the simmering water for fifteen second bursts, pulling it out to check the curl on it as I go. This process worked out really well. The bracer started to take a slight curl on the edges and I assumed that meant it was pretty much done so I went ahead and wrapped it around the base that I had chosen (A glass ended up being just the right circumference) and let it sit for a night and a day. It was hard like wood, had the right shape, a nice deep brown color, and in general a real success of a project.

I was pleased.

I decided to experiment further to see if I would have to worry about it getting wet. I know you boil the leather to dehydrate it to make it hard, I wanted to see how well it would take being re-hydrated. I ran water over it and it lost almost all of its rigidness. Thus it lost all of its armor value.

After I let it dry it hardens up again but I dont want to be on the field in a light drizzle only to have my armor go soggy on me after thirty minutes.

The point to this really long tale of woe is, how in the names of all the gods do I go about water-proofing my leather once it is water-hardened?

Thanks in advance, Nathan Early.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:35 am

You sammed the leather rather than truly hardening it -- samming will harden it, but it's also reversable (though longterm, bad for the leather, as it washes out the oils and fats, eventually getting you stiffer and stiffer and more like rawhide, which in this case is closer to what you want). I'd strongly recommend you do a forum search on leather hardening, and look at peoples' results, specifically regarding baking.

True leather hardening isn't about dehydratng the leather, but about making a chemical change happen within the fibers.

bairdec · Post by **bairdec** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:43 am

I'm not much of a leatherworker, but wax or mink oil will waterproof leather. When the weather warms up they will soften up a bit because of the heat and the wax or oil.

See also these threads (in no particular order):

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=94519
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47176
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29279
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1187
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=90962
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=90934

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:48 am

Sammed, thats a new term for me, I'll jot that down in my brain notes.

I read several articles and did several forum searches. Some people like to harden in wax and oil while others swear up and down that straight water-hardening is the way to go.

I dont really have much of a desire to work with wax since I hear its messy and my wife probably wouldnt be too horribly thrilled with messy in our apartment kitchen.

The article I read that finally convinced me to try "Samming" (Can I use that as a verb?) pretty much explained it the way I did it above.

Now, I will also note that I saved the ruined bracer that I boiled for too long. I let it soak in water the same way I let my "good" bracer soak in water just to experiment and no matter how long I soaked that thing it stayed just as hard as wood.

I was thinking a problem might be that I didnt boil my good bracer quiet long enough for fear of making another leather burrito.

Do you think that maybe a prolonged boiling period would help? Also, I know you can treat wood to make it waterproof, does anyone have any methods for treating boiled leather in a similar way.

What I was really hoping for is someone would have a great process for waterproofing "sammed" leather, since samming is the easiest thing for me to do given the tools and space that I have at hand.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:51 am

bairdec wrote:I'm not much of a leatherworker, but wax or mink oil will waterproof leather. When the weather warms up they will soften up a bit because of the heat and the wax or oil.

Yeah, this is pretty much why I am dodging wax hardening. (Aside from the fact it sounds messy and more complicated than I care to delve into if I can help it.) I live in Texas and as such heat softening would be a major concern for me, more so than water softening.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:28 pm

To make a slight correction to what I said above, I am not opposed to working with wax if thats the only way to go, but I would like to avoid boiling my gear in wax if at all possible.

I want to say I read an article where someone explained that you could boil your armor in water to harden it and then bake it just to the melting point with some wax on it and then rub the wax in.

Would that work? Could I water-boil my leather to harden it and then do sort of a light wax-over to help water-proof it?

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:48 pm

You can. I have. Another option, if your last is small enough, is to put it on the last while it's being water-heated.

Or soak it ahead of time, and bake it carefully on the last. Best of all those worlds, b/c you've got control the whole time.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:56 pm

you might want to try acrylic wax.
usualy the hardware has it as floor finish a quick coat will seal the leather.
Future is one brand name but the store brand is usual cheaper.
Sam's club has the best deal at about 25 dollars for 2.5 Gallons.
some people just soak the leather to harden it. There may be a crackleing effect as the leather flexes.
Let the piece dry and you should be good to go.

Kilkenny will probibly mention some other options when he sees the post.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:00 pm

Super. Now the last question I think I have is...

What kind of wax do I need to use for sealing purposes?

I know some people use beeswax for hardening purposes. Will it work as a top layer sealer as well?

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:03 pm

losthelm wrote:you might want to try acrylic wax.
usualy the hardware has it as floor finish a quick coat will seal the leather.
Future is one brand name but the store brand is usual cheaper.
Sam's club has the best deal at about 25 dollars for 2.5 Gallons.
some people just soak the leather to harden it. There may be a crackleing effect as the leather flexes.
Let the piece dry and you should be good to go.

Kilkenny will probibly mention some other options when he sees the post.

Acrylic wax?

Will I need to heat and melt it first? I have never heard of the stuff. Does it have a color and will it stain my leather?

Whats the best way to apply it? (A brush, rubbing it in while wearing gloves, ect...)

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:24 pm

the acrylic wax comes in a liquid form and usualy takes a bit to dry.
I usualy just paint it on with a brush try for even coats.

it smells like strong windex so you may want to do it outside or atleast have the window open. Make shure to lay down news print or somthing to protect the furniture/carpet.
as for color it can darken the leather a bit almost like the antique finish tandy sells.

ends up fairly water proof and has been holding up well for me.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:26 pm

losthelm wrote:the acrylic wax comes in a liquid form and usualy takes a bit to dry.
I usualy just paint it on with a brush try for even coats.

it smells like strong windex so you may want to do it outside or atleast have the window open. Make shure to lay down news print or somthing to protect the furniture/carpet.
as for color it can darken the leather a bit almost like the antique finish tandy sells.

ends up fairly water proof and has been holding up well for me.

Great, I think I'll go with that then.

(Thanks to everyone for your replies, any other ideas you might have to help me along would be appreciated.)

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:20 pm

Very first piece of advice:

Look up His Grace Cariadoc's article on "The Perfect Armour" and take everything he says as an instruction on how NOT to do it

While he was a pioneer in the area and his work was valuable, we have passed to a much better understanding. And before anyone gets all worked up, I was around helping out His Grace back in the day. I'm not disrespectful of his efforts, it's simply that they are outdated. That article is an incredibly persistent internet zombie

Don't waste time and energy boiling water.
Dip your leather in water long enough that you can mold it to your chosen form. Let it dry for a while, not until it is dry and stiff, but until it is only somewhat damp.

At this point you may choose to use some glue as an aid to the hardening process. In period we have evidence that they used hide glue (but we don't know really why it is there - it may only be an artifact from their having gessoed and painted the armour). I prefer to use a modern glue that is waterproof when it dries rather than a hide glue that is always water soluble. What I do is to make a solution of water and Titebond III, about ten water to one Titebond. I dip my pieces into this solution (cat litter buckets, very convenient containers) for a minute or two.

To actually make the chemical changes that harden leather, you need to get the proteins above 167 degrees F, but you do not want to go above 212 F. The idea is to get a change in the protein without actually cooking the leather.

I use my kitchen oven, with an oven thermometer, and set it to about 180. I put a plank on the rack in the oven. Do not put your leather in contact with any metal in the hot oven, it will scorch. When the oven is at 180 according to the oven thermometer, I put the pieces on the plank.

Check every 5 minutes or so for temperature and for the appearance of drying in the leather. When the pieces show clear signs that areas are drying, I pull them. I do not wait for the entire piece to appear to be dry. That has produced shrinking and warping due to overheating.

After removing from the oven, I give the piece three days of additional drying time. At the end of that time, I dip in acrylic floor polish as a sealer.

This produces a hardened leather that is resistant to water on three levels. First, the chemical change to the proteins is not reversed by wetting the leather. Second, the Titebond III glue is waterproof. Third, the acrylic floor polish is a reasonably effective sealant.

This hardened leather is not softened by heat. In the event that it begins to soften over time (repeated flexing, impact, etc. can cause it to breakdown a bit) you can dip it in a bucket of water for a moment and stick it back in the oven just like you did in the beginning. It should recover much of its hardness from this "refresher".

The oven baking technique offers much better control over temperature and time than dipping in hot water. It produces an end product with no additional weight (soaking in wax adds significantly to the weight of the leather) and one that is immune to softening from heat.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:35 pm

Kilkenny wrote:Very first piece of advice:

Look up His Grace Cariadoc's article on "The Perfect Armour" and take everything he says as an instruction on how NOT to do it While he was a pioneer in the area and his work was valuable, we have passed to a much better understanding. And before anyone gets all worked up, I was around helping out His Grace back in the day. I'm not disrespectful of his efforts, it's simply that they are outdated. That article is an incredibly persistent internet zombie

Don't waste time and energy boiling water.
Dip your leather in water long enough that you can mold it to your chosen form. Let it dry for a while, not until it is dry and stiff, but until it is only somewhat damp.

At this point you may choose to use some glue as an aid to the hardening process. In period we have evidence that they used hide glue (but we don't know really why it is there - it may only be an artifact from their having gessoed and painted the armour). I prefer to use a modern glue that is waterproof when it dries rather than a hide glue that is always water soluble. What I do is to make a solution of water and Titebond III, about ten water to one Titebond. I dip my pieces into this solution (cat litter buckets, very convenient containers) for a minute or two.

To actually make the chemical changes that harden leather, you need to get the proteins above 167 degrees F, but you do not want to go above 212 F. The idea is to get a change in the protein without actually cooking the leather.

I use my kitchen oven, with an oven thermometer, and set it to about 180. I put a plank on the rack in the oven. Do not put your leather in contact with any metal in the hot oven, it will scorch. When the oven is at 180 according to the oven thermometer, I put the pieces on the plank.

Check every 5 minutes or so for temperature and for the appearance of drying in the leather. When the pieces show clear signs that areas are drying, I pull them. I do not wait for the entire piece to appear to be dry. That has produced shrinking and warping due to overheating.

After removing from the oven, I give the piece three days of additional drying time. At the end of that time, I dip in acrylic floor polish as a sealer.

This produces a hardened leather that is resistant to water on three levels. First, the chemical change to the proteins is not reversed by wetting the leather. Second, the Titebond III glue is waterproof. Third, the acrylic floor polish is a reasonably effective sealant.

This hardened leather is not softened by heat. In the event that it begins to soften over time (repeated flexing, impact, etc. can cause it to breakdown a bit) you can dip it in a bucket of water for a moment and stick it back in the oven just like you did in the beginning. It should recover much of its hardness from this "refresher".

The oven baking technique offers much better control over temperature and time than dipping in hot water. It produces an end product with no additional weight (soaking in wax adds significantly to the weight of the leather) and one that is immune to softening from heat.

Thats a great instructional and very helpful for my purposes.

What brand of acrylic floor polish do you use if I may ask?

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:22 pm

Could we put a sticky up that just says DO NOT BOIL LEATHER

Schmitthenner · Post by **Schmitthenner** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:13 pm

post deleted

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:03 pm

Schmitthenner wrote:Hello Nathan,

Wax hardening after water hardening can also be done, which how our traditional cuirbouille hardening method is done. We just don't use any commercially made products, (i.e. Titebond, acrylic floor waxes, etc)
We use water and natural waxes. If you're looking for something that is less modern and also as durable you may wish to try it this way.

What sort of wax would you recommend and how would you recommend applying it?

(Where can I get said wax in question?)

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:31 pm

Bees wax
Parafin
Carnuba

Applied after water hardening, usually and can generally be found at craft stores or on line.

hrolf · Post by **hrolf** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:43 pm

audax wrote:Bees wax
Parafin
Carnuba

Applied after water hardening, usually and can generally be found at craft stores or on line.

To add onto this - Torvaldr uses a 50/50 mix of beeswax and carnuba by mass, and his stuff is very well sealed.

I bought mine from mcmaster-carr (because i buy almost everything there), but you can also get it online at amazon and other places.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:42 am

Nathan Early wrote:
Thats a great instructional and very helpful for my purposes.

What brand of acrylic floor polish do you use if I may ask?

I've found Johnson's commercial high traffic to be quite satisfactory.

For those who don't want to use the modern ingredients, you can use hide glue or skip the glue entirely and then seal with wax, buffed on as if you were shining shoes, inside and out.

Historically, treating leather with hot wax is documentable for making drinking vessels and waterproofing boots. "Jack boots" and "blackjacks" - the English drinking vessels, not the lead saps

both reference the same thing - treating the leather with wax - and some other things. The surviving instructions on jacking boots are really pretty scary, it's quite clear the mixture of wax and pitch being used is highly flammable and worked near its flash point.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:32 am

I just want to chime in and state that I have gotten excellent results from a process nearly identical to what Kilkenny describes, using either traditional rabbit hide glue or the modern titebond&water solution. I have used Tandy Supershene to apply a wax sealing coat but I'm sure buffed-on beeswax or the acrylic floor sealer (they call it wax but it really isn't) would work fine as well.

Saturating the leather for armour with hot wax is an SCA tradition based on older methods of making drinking vessels, but the resulting product is too heavy and too easy to cut in my opinion. Those who do use wax must use a careful mix of new-world and modern waxes in order to avoid having the armour melt in the trunk of your car. This may be less of a problem the further North you live, but I live in Texas.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:54 am

I dropped by Home Depot to try and pick up some acrylic wax.

The only thing I could find was Polycrylic.

Is polycrylic useable?

Also, someone said that after I wax the armor I should shine it in the same fashion that you shine a shoe. Does that mean with a traditional shoe-shine brush? Or with a cloth?

(I have always used a brush to shine my boots.)

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:17 pm

Nathan Early wrote:I dropped by Home Depot to try and pick up some acrylic wax.

The only thing I could find was Polycrylic.

Is polycrylic useable?

Also, someone said that after I wax the armor I should shine it in the same fashion that you shine a shoe. Does that mean with a traditional shoe-shine brush? Or with a cloth?

(I have always used a brush to shine my boots.)

Don't look for acrylic wax. Look for acrylic floor polish. Home Depot, or Lowe's, should carry it in gallon jugs.

If you've always used a brush on your boots, do the same on your armour

Nothing magic about how you do it, but the way you're familiar with will probably work best for you. The objective is a thorough and even coating across the entire surface of the leather, inside, outside and the edges.

If you do the acrylic floor polish, then there's really no need to put a coat of wax on over that. You may want to take a lint free cloth and buff the pieces after the acrylic has dried, but my general experience is that it is unnecessary.

Nathan Early · Post by **Nathan Early** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:21 pm

Kilkenny wrote:
Nathan Early wrote:I dropped by Home Depot to try and pick up some acrylic wax.

The only thing I could find was Polycrylic.

Is polycrylic useable?

Also, someone said that after I wax the armor I should shine it in the same fashion that you shine a shoe. Does that mean with a traditional shoe-shine brush? Or with a cloth?

(I have always used a brush to shine my boots.)

Don't look for acrylic wax. Look for acrylic floor polish. Home Depot, or Lowe's, should carry it in gallon jugs.

If you've always used a brush on your boots, do the same on your armour Nothing magic about how you do it, but the way you're familiar with will probably work best for you. The objective is a thorough and even coating across the entire surface of the leather, inside, outside and the edges.

If you do the acrylic floor polish, then there's really no need to put a coat of wax on over that. You may want to take a lint free cloth and buff the pieces after the acrylic has dried, but my general experience is that it is unnecessary.

You guys have been great. I think I am good to go now.

Thanks, Nathan Early.

Schmitthenner · Post by **Schmitthenner** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:16 pm

post deleted

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:39 pm

Nathan Early wrote:I dropped by Home Depot to try and pick up some acrylic wax.

The stuff I always go for is <a href="http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(oy1pmaycedrthi452zm5dm45)/productdetails.aspx?sku=12078&source=GoogleBase"> 'Future'</a> .

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:46 am

What an awesome thread. Everything you need to know in one place. Man I love the AA!

CudOfCow · Post by **CudOfCow** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:07 am

Kilkenny wrote:Very first piece of advice:

Look up His Grace Cariadoc's article on "The Perfect Armour" and take everything he says as an instruction on how NOT to do it While he was a pioneer in the area and his work was valuable, we have passed to a much better understanding. And before anyone gets all worked up, I was around helping out His Grace back in the day. I'm not disrespectful of his efforts, it's simply that they are outdated. That article is an incredibly persistent internet zombie

Don't waste time and energy boiling water.
Dip your leather in water long enough that you can mold it to your chosen form. Let it dry for a while, not until it is dry and stiff, but until it is only somewhat damp.

At this point you may choose to use some glue as an aid to the hardening process. In period we have evidence that they used hide glue (but we don't know really why it is there - it may only be an artifact from their having gessoed and painted the armour). I prefer to use a modern glue that is waterproof when it dries rather than a hide glue that is always water soluble. What I do is to make a solution of water and Titebond III, about ten water to one Titebond. I dip my pieces into this solution (cat litter buckets, very convenient containers) for a minute or two.

To actually make the chemical changes that harden leather, you need to get the proteins above 167 degrees F, but you do not want to go above 212 F. The idea is to get a change in the protein without actually cooking the leather.

I use my kitchen oven, with an oven thermometer, and set it to about 180. I put a plank on the rack in the oven. Do not put your leather in contact with any metal in the hot oven, it will scorch. When the oven is at 180 according to the oven thermometer, I put the pieces on the plank.

Check every 5 minutes or so for temperature and for the appearance of drying in the leather. When the pieces show clear signs that areas are drying, I pull them. I do not wait for the entire piece to appear to be dry. That has produced shrinking and warping due to overheating.

After removing from the oven, I give the piece three days of additional drying time. At the end of that time, I dip in acrylic floor polish as a sealer.

This produces a hardened leather that is resistant to water on three levels. First, the chemical change to the proteins is not reversed by wetting the leather. Second, the Titebond III glue is waterproof. Third, the acrylic floor polish is a reasonably effective sealant.

This hardened leather is not softened by heat. In the event that it begins to soften over time (repeated flexing, impact, etc. can cause it to breakdown a bit) you can dip it in a bucket of water for a moment and stick it back in the oven just like you did in the beginning. It should recover much of its hardness from this "refresher".

The oven baking technique offers much better control over temperature and time than dipping in hot water. It produces an end product with no additional weight (soaking in wax adds significantly to the weight of the leather) and one that is immune to softening from heat.

When during this process is it time to use dye's? I've got the glue and the floor polish, but i'd like to dye the leather also. I'm going to be using some Eco-Flo from Tandy Leather.

What does he mean by "plank on the rack in the oven". Plank of wood?

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:37 am

yea I think kilkenny was useing plywood or an old wood bread board to avoid the grill marks / hot spots you can get with bakeing pans or the oven racks as they conduct heat differently then the air in the oven.

If your not careful you endup with waffel print vambraces.

CudOfCow · Post by **CudOfCow** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:01 pm

losthelm wrote:yea I think kilkenny was useing plywood or an old wood bread board to avoid the grill marks / hot spots you can get with bakeing pans or the oven racks as they conduct heat differently then the air in the oven.

If your not careful you endup with waffel print vambraces.

Ahhh, i seee. I googled it and found that wood tends to burn at 390 degrees ferenheit so as long as we are just baking the thing I wont burn the house down.

CudOfCow · Post by **CudOfCow** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:18 pm

OK, i might be a complete noob, but i want to get this right the first time so i dont waste leather. In short, from what i understand the proposed process has the following steps. The two things i'm not sure about are when to tool the leather, and when to dye it. Please correct me if i've got my steps mixed up.

1. (cut it) Cut your leather to preferred shape.

2. (mold it) Submerge your leather in water long enough that you can mold it to the chosen form(~30 minutes). Let it dry for a while, not until it is dry and stiff, but until it is only somewhat damp and has taken on some sort of shape.

3. (tool it?) This is where you'd do any fancy curling/final tooling of the leather to get the thing into its final form and ready for baking.

4. (dip in the glue stuff) When it is only somewhat damp and has taken on some shape. Dip it in [10:1] Water:Titebond III for a minute or two.

5. (cook it) Put a plank of wood(so it doesnt burn) in the oven and cook the armor at 180 degrees ferenheit until the piece starts to dry. Check them often. When they show signs of drying, pull them out. (dont cook it too long, it should not be totally dry when it comes out or it could shrink)

6. (dry it) After removing from the oven, wait THREE days of additional drying time.

7. (dye it) If you want to add dye, do it now? I think this is the right time to dye the leather after it is dry....?

5. (add sealant) Dip it in some kind of sealer. Pledge *Future* acrylic floor polish or similar.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:19 pm

I can answer your questions about when to tool and when to dye.

Tooling is done first thing after you've cut your pieces and before you do any forming. You want to make sure your tooling is deep and clear, because when you form the leather, it will tend to fade in areas where the leather is stretched by forming.

Dyeing can be done before baking - in which case it should be done after forming but before the dip in the Titebond solution. This is how I normally do my dye work. I do Not recommend painting with acrylic paints at this stage. They don't necessarily like the heat treatment and can ruin the work.

You can also dye the piece after hardening - I recommend doing this before it is fully dry - but the dye will take very differently than if you applied it before baking. It's a great way to achieve some interesting woodgrain effects and a terrible way to get anything like an even coloration.

Caveat - I've done none of this work with the Eco-flo dyes. They are water soluble and I do not know how they will react to any of the stages of the hardening process. My experience is with Fiebing's spirit dyes, Angelus dyes (also spirit based) and Fiebing's professional oil dyes.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:16 am

Wait, what's he trying to do cooking thinned Titebond in the first place?

Albrechtthesilent · Post by **Albrechtthesilent** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:19 am

Wait, what's he trying to do cooking thinned Titebond in the first place?

Titebond (preferably Titebond III) thinned down can be used to make glue hardened leather armour in the same process as done with hide glue. The difference is that Titebond III is waterproof (once set).

I do it a bit differently. After the initial soak, I wipe the surface scum off the piece, and dab more glue on during the bake on the inside of the piece to ensure I get adequate penetration.

Albrecht

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:57 am

Konstantin the Red wrote:Wait, what's he trying to do cooking thinned Titebond in the first place?

mm.. Konstantin, are you ok ? Because you've read the numerous threads where this has been discussed in detail, I'm quite sure you've commented in them before.

The Titebond is used in place of hide glue as part of the process for hardening the leather. I adopted Titebond III in place of hide glue because hide glue is always water soluble, while titebond III dries to be waterproof.