Q: Best wood for leather forming lasts?

[Sean Powell]

Kind of tangentally on topic. I'm interested in making some hardened leather armor and to get the desired shapes considering building woden lasts to hold the leather in shape while drying. The wood needs to be hard enough to be strong but soft enough to take lots of small nails without splitting. I figure someone out here may have build lasts for shaping leather before, probably for shoes. I'm curious what did and didn't work well for you.

Thanks,
Sean

[Kilkenny]

While I have not yet made lasts, I will add to your list of concerns the need to avoid resinous or sappy woods that will bleed into the leather.

[Thomas H]

Layered plywood?

[michael stuart]

I haven't used it for this particular application, but maple would probably be a good choice.

[Maeryk]

I have a book on making "formed" leather objects (purses, pouches, boxes) that was a mid 1980's production, and they reccomend maple, or another dense, close grained hardwood that will not react with the leather. I'd go with maple, if you can find it.

Plywood you won't get a smooth finish where you cut across the layers.

[Sean Powell]

Smooth finish on the inside of the armor isn't much of a concern but sap obviously would be problematic for further water hardening. I hadn't remembered that but thanks for the reminder.

I actually think the local Home Desperate sells planks of 1x maple. If not there is a 'WoodCrafters' near here. I could probably pick up a single large piece there rather then laminating up a block.

Any other recomendations? what about grain direction? I was thinking the nails would go into endgrain better then cross grain. Yes/No?

Sean

[Maeryk]

Smooth finish on the inside of the armor isn't much of a concern but sap obviously would be problematic for further water hardening. I hadn't remembered that but thanks for the reminder.

I actually think the local Home Desperate sells planks of 1x maple. If not there is a 'WoodCrafters' near here. I could probably pick up a single large piece there rather then laminating up a block.

Any other recomendations? what about grain direction? I was thinking the nails would go into endgrain better then cross grain. Yes/No?

Sean

Depends on the nail, the size, and the piece of wood.

If you are gonna laminate, I'd pay attention to growth rings in the wood and such.. that wood will be dealing with a wet environment that is going to encourage it to "move" on you, and you may end up with warp/cup depending on how you cut it.

You'll have to play with it a bit.

if you are using small nails (like upholstery tacks) it shouldn't really matter all that much where you are nailing. bigger nails run a chance of splitting the wood. Maple, however, is really good at "holding together' on the end grain, which is why butcher blocks are traditionally _end grain_ maple.

[J.A.Baker]

Most lasts and wood forms that I have seen were carved down out of stumps. Most of the time that's what leather mask makers use. They get an oak or other hardwood stump and carve out the side to the desired shape. Any finishing tack or furniture tack shouldn't split a form made this way.

Oops! I almost forgot. If you use a stump or lasts make sure you get a good slicker. The best for this kind of work are made from glass but you can find them made from hdpe and other stuff. make sure you start by tacking the top of the piec down first and use the slicker to push the leather toward the other points you plan on tacking down. You can use a paint striping heat gun on low (10$ at harbor frieght) to dry the leather and get your form faster. This is all mask making stuff but it should apply to armour as well.

[Kel Rekuta]

Kind of tangentally on topic. I'm interested in making some hardened leather armor and to get the desired shapes considering building woden lasts to hold the leather in shape while drying. The wood needs to be hard enough to be strong but soft enough to take lots of small nails without splitting. I figure someone out here may have build lasts for shaping leather before, probably for shoes. I'm curious what did and didn't work well for you.

Thanks,
Sean

Sean,

I use soft maple or poplar, whichever is handy. Traditional shoemaking lasts were made of alder according to Neergaard & Co. - IIRC? Unfortunately not a common lumberyard item in North America. Some 19thC boot shaft lasts I've handled were hemlock. Not a pleasant wood to work IMO. Softwoods like pine and cedar don't grip tacks well enough. Hard maple, ash and oak are too hard to insert tacks deeply enough.

Shoemakers and saddlers shape leather over forms using a combination of pushing with a round faced hammer and pulling with lasting pliers. The formed leather is then tacked tightly. After drying the lasting margin might be trimmed if necessary. I use all of the above tools making lasted leather armour items.

Hope that helps.

Kel

[Maeryk]

Kind of tangentally on topic. I'm interested in making some hardened leather armor and to get the desired shapes considering building woden lasts to hold the leather in shape while drying. The wood needs to be hard enough to be strong but soft enough to take lots of small nails without splitting. I figure someone out here may have build lasts for shaping leather before, probably for shoes. I'm curious what did and didn't work well for you.

Thanks,
Sean

Sean,

I use soft maple or poplar, whichever is handy. Traditional shoemaking lasts were made of alder according to Neergaard & Co. - IIRC? Unfortunately not a common lumberyard item in North America. Some 19thC boot shaft lasts I've handled were hemlock. Not a pleasant wood to work IMO. Softwoods like pine and cedar don't grip tacks well enough. Hard maple, ash and oak are too hard to insert tacks deeply enough.

Shoemakers and saddlers shape leather over forms using a combination of pushing with a round faced hammer and pulling with lasting pliers. The formed leather is then tacked tightly. After drying the lasting margin might be trimmed if necessary. I use all of the above tools making lasted leather armour items.

Hope that helps.

Kel

Is it ALder and Poplar which are pretty much interchangeable as woods?

[Jeffrey Hedgecock]

Having made lasts for both shoes and leather armour, I've used a variety of woods. Among them maple, poplar, basswood and fir. Many modern production lasts are made of polymers, like nylon.

Tacking to the last is typically done today, but lacing the leather down tight to the last is also a valid and very workable technique. It's just as quick as tacking, doesn't waste tacks, nor does it put myriad tackholes in the lasts.

[HughRose]

I had a half formed plan to make lasts using a cast resin with an embedded plywood strip for the back or bottom where the nails where to go.

My plan(which was for shoes) was to make a plaster negative mold of my foot, put a strip of plywood along the bottom once I have the mold, seal the plywood to the mold using putty and then pour in resin. this would give me an exact mold of my foot and should also work for other body parts.

If you or anyone has or does try it let me know how it works.

[Sean Powell]

Tacking to the last is typically done today, but lacing the leather down tight to the last is also a valid and very workable technique. It's just as quick as tacking, doesn't waste tacks, nor does it put myriad tackholes in the lasts.

Interesting. Does the lacing go through a series of punched holes at the edges or does the wrap completely over the leather? The first would require holes. The second might leave cord marks on the surface of the leather. I'm curious is you have any pictures or examples to help me understand this better. It is an idea I had partially considered in one ares where I need an anticalstic curve so I would like to not have to lear the hard way.

Sean

[Maelgwyn]

When I tied leather to a last, I used long strips of cloth. I did not see any markings from the cloth on the leather after baking.

[Johann Lederer]

To make formed cases I used poplar and maple, when I had them, spruce when I had no other choice. The problem with the good old 2x_'s is that I had to wax them first. I prefer poplar, but I don't buy it at Home Despot or Lowely's. I usually hit the local lumber yard and by culled lumber or drops. I get decent prices on wood that has band damage in spots. For lasts, that is good, furniture, not so much...

Oh, Avoid oak, grain is too course and it splits terrible, not to mention it is VERY hard.

[Cat]

Also try to avoid pressure treated lumber. It's nice to use because you can get the 4x4 and I think 6x6 posts, but it will turn wet leather black almost as soon as it touches it. (or at least it did when I layed a piece of wet leather on one.) If that doesn't matter to you, I guess you can try that as a relatively cheap option. If it only touches the flesh side of the leather, then it probably wouldn't make that much difference.

Cat

Ps. It might be toxic though - not sure about that.

[Jeffrey Hedgecock]

Tacking to the last is typically done today, but lacing the leather down tight to the last is also a valid and very workable technique. It's just as quick as tacking, doesn't waste tacks, nor does it put myriad tackholes in the lasts.

Interesting. Does the lacing go through a series of punched holes at the edges or does the wrap completely over the leather? The first would require holes. The second might leave cord marks on the surface of the leather. I'm curious is you have any pictures or examples to help me understand this better. It is an idea I had partially considered in one ares where I need an anticalstic curve so I would like to not have to lear the hard way.

Sean

The former. I lace through awl-pierced holes in an extra 1/4 to 3/8" of "lasting margin" on the bottom edge of the upper, which is pulled over the sole down onto the bottom of the shoe last. The sole is laid on the bottom of the last first of all- I usually tack it in two places so it doesn't shift when I'm lasting a shoe. The lasting margin gets trimmed off as you stitch the upper to the sole. Don't trim it all off first, as the upper will shift around and you need the lasting margin available to bridge gapping sometimes.

I've always laced the upper to the last, over the sole, and it's always worked very well. As far as I know, it's what was done historically, as trimmed off lasting margin leather bits survive from medieval middens.