Tabard fabric choices

[bhaiduk]

What material do you guys use to make tabards? I would like to use something that will hold up to SCA fighting, but the stuff I used last time (light cotton canvas) was to stiff. It would basically hold it's shape, instead of flow or drape nicely. What would be a good balance?

[Konstantin the Red]

Three yards of mid- to heavyweight linen.

[horsefriend]

I'm working on one now that is 6-7 oz. linen. But, as much as I hate to say it, if it's a fighting surcote that's going to get a tremendous amount of wear, "Trigger"or equivalent is not a bad choice. I made my fighting surcote in 1982 and the damned this is STILL going strong

alail/scott

[FrauHirsch]

I've made surcoats and 'rocks for people in really high quality velvet that held up well. For SCA fighting, pile protects the woven base from the typical 'crush' and abrasion damage inflicted by rattan swords.

My husband's wool mohair velvet waffenrock held up really well for years.

Don't use the acetate and nylon velvet or the cotton velveteen (where the pile lays flat and has a nap), or corduroy, which will typically rip along the grain of the cords, but the full thick plush pile in cotton or cotton/sythetic blend or 100% wool mohair apholstery velvet (very pricey though). When you bend it, you should not see rows between the piles.

Regular synthetic apholstery velvet will be stiff and will look modern and sparkly due to its fiber content.

I don't recommend poly-cotton, it always looks modern.

There is linen canvas around, but its usually pricey.

[zippy]

everyone here will probably tell you the same things
linen, linen, linen
with the occasional silk, velvet, brocade, or even lightweight wool depending on persona
if you are going to do it do it right
even super period enthusiasts will forgive you if you at least try with a linen blend
and linen breathes so nice, i tell you
trigger or heavyweight canvas oh my god sweat city
linen washes well too
have fun
zip

[Karen Larsdatter]

... but on the other hand, it doesn't look like medieval surcoats were made out of linen, either. It seems to be a good fiber choice for creating a modern and comfortable garment that works as a tabard, if that's what you want for "doing it right."

[zippy]

good rebuttal
i really wish i knew what they used for the manesse codex
that is what i am basing my kit off of
thanks for the post

[hrolf]

... but on the other hand, it doesn't look like medieval surcoats were made out of linen, either. It seems to be a good fiber choice for creating a modern and comfortable garment that works as a tabard, if that's what you want for "doing it right."

Karen,

after digging around on your site a bit, i'm still not finding an answer: do you know of sources of extant 13thc heraldric surcoats, like the ones depicted in the Mac Bible, that report on fiber composition?

Exceedingly curious.

[brewer]

The jupon of the Black Prince is, from the inside out, linen, cotton wadding, red (or blue) silk velvet. The velvet is embroidered with charges of lions and fleurs de lis.

There is a padded jupon in Chartres Catherdral. It's crimson silk damask with cotton wadding and reportedly a linen lining.

Some were also padded with wool, but not these extant ones. Of course these belonged to Kings and Princes, so they would be of better materials. Cotton was expensive in England and France but lighter than wool wadding.

Some of those surcotes and jupons we see on the effigies (tnx, Karen! As always, thou rock'st!) appear to be single-layer, but we have no extant examples from which to draw information.

Practically speaking, however, I think a durable linen weave would work well for SCA purposes. Stiff fabrics will work a lot better if you wash the bejeebus out of it before making the tabard.

Cheers,

Bob

[Karen Larsdatter]

do you know of sources of extant 13thc heraldric surcoats, like the ones depicted in the Mac Bible, that report on fiber composition?

Not off the top of my head. But then & again ... does the Mac Bible actually have any heraldic surcoats? http://www.larsdatter.com/mens-surcoats.htm has two images of heraldic surcoats that date to around the same period as the Mac Bible, but I don't think I've seen anything in there that's actually a heraldic surcoat.

(By the way, it's now online at the Morgan Library, too -- you can get to it via Corsair, of course, but there's also an online exhibit at http://www.themorgan.org/exhibitions/ex ... nlineKings that gives you zoomable images along with good descriptions of what's going on in each illustration, along with a reference to the biblical chapter that the illustration is meant to depict.)

14th century, there's a couple of references (and a few extant bits, like the aforementioned Black Prince's jupon). Ad faciendum vnum jupoun de stuff ad arma de armis (Wardrobe accounts of Edward III) likely references a similar sort of thing, a quilted jupon with heraldry.

There's also Oppon is armure was he clad wyþ a cote-armure ... Of Cloþ of gold ... enbrouded with perlis in Sir Firumbras (late 14th century); it's more of a literary description than an inventory, but it's not outside of the realm of possibility that such richly-made tabards & surcoats existed in the 14th century.

I think linen's a good choice for the ground of embroidery on a surcoat (the goldwork embroidery on the Black Prince's jupon, IIRC, was worked on linen, then the embroidered bits were then cut out and appliquéd to the silk velvet).

I don't have any extant banners from the 13th century, but the links at http://www.larsdatter.com/banners.htm can give you some ideas as to some of the possible methods of decorating a surcoat, since we don't have all that many heraldic surcoats (or heraldic garments in general, really) floating around.