maille skirt attachment

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:15 pm

I've got a 14th cen. kit here.
Using a padded gambeson with a globose breastplate ontop.

I want to know what is some methods to attach the maille skirt?

1. Leave maille skirt as continous circle, slip into it, and tie to gambeson. (Leather kidney belt, if used, beneath gambeson)

2. split the maille skirt, and attach to kidney belt. Belt is now ontop gambeson. still will need to tie to gambeson, cuz the belt will not ride up as high as the bottom of breastplate.

Any tips for me? Thanks. :?:

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:34 pm

My present maile fauld is laced to an army belt that I wear over my gambeson with the buckle in back. I use a simple s-hook to close the gap which isn't a big issue given it's location.

The suit I am building now will have the mail sewn to a leather strip at the bottom of the fauld. it will be open at the right hip and I may add 1 or 2 small buckles to keep it shut on that side.

If you do a tube that you slide into, it is much easier to let it drop to get out of it then to lift it back over your head. I tried the tube design in the begining and didn't like it.

Sean

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:43 pm

thanks, Sean.

Your belt doesn't fall down? My breastplate stops right under my rib cage. That means the belt would wrap around me right above the lower rib cage. I really don't think a belt would stay up there for long, especially with the weight.

I thought of adding 3 or 4 arming points around the gambeson to tie the belt to, so it will not slide down. Does that make sense? :?:

(edit added pic)

Here's a pic for better reference. I wasn't wearing my schynbalds, right demi-gaunt, hose, lowboots, or my nicer belt. My spaulders are also tied directly to the gambeson now. At least you get the idea how high up it needs to go to provide good cover.

Once I get the skirt done, I'll add voiders, then leg wraps.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:15 am

Sorry, I should have read more clearly before my initial replay. I wear a 15thC back and breast. My belt with maile hangs at about my jeans waist but the faulds cover from my breastplate down to my jeans waist. Not much point in having the maile cover an area the fauld does.

Now if you are wearing a fauldless breastplate like a globose you have a different issue as the maile needs to hang from much higher and cover the belly so it looks like a full hauberek. If I were to do that and didn't want maile under the breast and backplate then I would probably sew a canvas muscle-shirt maybe with a split and some soft buttons up the back (not directly over the spine). You could even add voiders to the arm holes. Then I would put it on and off like a shirt or hauberek.

Wouldn't it just be manlier (not to mention easier) to wear the globose over a full hauberek like they did back in the 14th C?

Sean

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:28 am

A mail haubergeon is appropriate for a 14th century breastplate - a fauld of mail would be too small to do the job, even were it properly secured to an arming doublet, which a gambeson is not. Those breastplates didn't have backplates, because they were an additional defense over the mail shirt that was the primary defense of the knight.

In other words, looking to use a mail skirt, instead of a light mail shirt is looking to a 15th century solution, for 14th century armour, or like looking to see what sort of Mercedes engine you can power your stagecoach with.

dominic · Post by **dominic** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:38 am

chef beat me to it. you really can't wear just a maille skirt with just a single breastplate. if you had some lames off the bottom that would be one thing, but if I were you I would get a full shirt. Here's my (partial but relevant to the discussion) rig:

Hope that helps!

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:51 am

Cool beans - nothing looks more 14th century, than a haubergeon with plate armour over it and around it, augmenting it.

In my eyes, one of the biggest visual gaps in some 14th century kits is wearing such things over gambesons, with no mail in sight other than an aventail.

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:03 pm

Would the same theory apply if wearing a churburg breastplate (with back coverings) as well?

(I thought that I remember reading about mail voiders and mail skirts used in the 14th cen., but I could be mistaken.)

I like the idea of having metal covering me up, and I have a churburg (unassembled) that I have been tinkering with. My intent is to use this globose until the churburg is completed.

Thanks for the valuable input guys.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:06 pm

My mail skirt is laced to my arming coat. It's currently too tight IMO.

And I'm working on sewing up another arming coat right now to make it easier.

-Aaron

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:11 pm

That is what I was thinking, but was just told that this is 15th cen. (which is what looks like you have there.)

I may be able to get away with it providing the churburg covers it up all the way around.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:36 pm

CH 13 never had a backplate. Both 14th century breastplates associated with the churburg armoury were made to be worn with a haubergeon.

15th century armour, at least in France, was worn with a full mail haubergeon, up to the Battle of Agincourt 1415 (we have an eyewitness account of a participant, describing the French knights wearing full shirts of mail, under their armour), although the practise seems to have died away by the end of the first third of the century, which seems to coincide with metalurgy overall improving in harness.

Edited to correct numerical error

Sir Victor · Post by **Sir Victor** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:37 am

This churburg breastplate (#13) looks like it covers the mid back.

[img]http://www.crescentmoonarmoury.com/Crescent_Moon_Armoury/Churburg_13_breastplate_files/original_side.jpg[/img]

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:18 am

Sir Victor wrote:This churburg breastplate (#13) looks like it covers the mid back.

[img]http://www.crescentmoonarmoury.com/Crescent_Moon_Armoury/Churburg_13_breastplate_files/original_side.jpg[/img]

No, it has the side wraps, and the last plates would stop well before any serious back coverage was gained.

Daniel S · Post by **Daniel S** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:17 am

I'll take the opportunity to ask those in the know about a very similar issue: I have seen a reproduction of a suit intended for a foot-soldier from Korsbetningen where a haubergeon is not used. Instead a sort of short, bolero, styled mail garment is worn that only covers the arms and the upper chest and back. It is to be worn under a coats of plates.

http://histvarld.historiska.se/histvarl ... rynja.html

It is similar to an illustration from the early 15th century where a man wears a mail skirt and puts on a piece of mail that looks like it will only protect the upper torso (unfortunately I don't have the picture of it in the computer I'm using right now).

Have anyone seen any signs that this type of mail garment was worn during the 14th century? Historiska museet has a piece of mail, a sleeve, as reference.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:54 am

That's the kind of thing I've been wanting.

And, man. I *love* the fit of those sleeves. That's some good work.

Effingham