Leather and Corrosion

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:56 pm

Ok, I'm having a lot of trouble lately. My vambraces are corroding through in approximately 9 month time frames. I'm typically using veg tanned leather, and nickle plated snap rivets, and it seems that my sweat plus the steel just corrodes the leather out quicker than I'd expect.

Would I do better with copper?Brass? Aluminum? Oil tanned leather?

TIA,
JP

Kormak · Post by **Kormak** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:44 am

Greetings !!

You may be one of those fellows who has very acidic sweat.. If I recall correctly Duke Aaron McGregor has that same problem..

Might be worth dropping him a line ?

Also are you using those splints Rikr gave you ? Perhaps that might have some sort of reaction to the Veg Tan + your sweat ?

I am sure more knowledgeable folks will weigh in on this...

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:36 am

How did you seal the leather?
What have you been using to clean it?
It sounds like the steel is reacting with the salt and moisture in the leather.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:43 am

I've never dealt with corrosion, but I've had regular problems with mildew on leather armor.

First question is, are you treating the leather with anything? I have used various products in the past but I find that Johnson's paste wax is inexpensive, readily available, durable, doesn't soften the leather, and it's pretty good for mild steel armor as well. I haven't had a problem with mildew since I first used it, and my leather really only gets a single coat every year.

Second question is whether I'm getting this correctly: is it eating around the rivet first? Turning green and rotting?

The nickle plated snap rivets (besides not really being strong enough) are not steel, they're brass. And any metal which corrodes is going to eventually show this problem. So copper alloys and mild steel are out.

The only other option out there would probably be stainless steel rivets. At least those are the only ones I've seen (at mcmaster). Tin would work but you'd have to make the rivets, and aluminum would be ugly.

Another option would be to investigate acrylic floor polish hardening. It basically polymerizes the leather, but AFAIK it still looks like leather.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:52 am

Jean Paul de Sens wrote:Ok, I'm having a lot of trouble lately. My vambraces are corroding through in approximately 9 month time frames. I'm typically using veg tanned leather, and nickle plated snap rivets, and it seems that my sweat plus the steel just corrodes the leather out quicker than I'd expect.

Would I do better with copper?Brass? Aluminum? Oil tanned leather?

TIA,
JP

Can you give us a picture and can you walk us through how you make them?

It might help in understanding/recognizing what is happening.

My first thought was that you might switch to a heavy latigo - if you aren't relying on the leather to really be the impact protection. That stuff is made to hold up when horses sweat through it, so it ought to be able to withstand yours

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:17 am

schreiber
I don't mean to argue but some of the plated quick rivets are steel.
The good ones are Brass and usualy about 2or3 X the money.

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:07 pm

Kilkenny wrote:
Jean Paul de Sens wrote:Ok, I'm having a lot of trouble lately. My vambraces are corroding through in approximately 9 month time frames. I'm typically using veg tanned leather, and nickle plated snap rivets, and it seems that my sweat plus the steel just corrodes the leather out quicker than I'd expect.

Would I do better with copper?Brass? Aluminum? Oil tanned leather?

TIA,
JP

Can you give us a picture and can you walk us through how you make them?

It might help in understanding/recognizing what is happening.

My first thought was that you might switch to a heavy latigo - if you aren't relying on the leather to really be the impact protection. That stuff is made to hold up when horses sweat through it, so it ought to be able to withstand yours

I'll provide a picture tonight. I use the rapid rivets (http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/home ... Product_13) to attach the splints to the leather vambraces.

The leather corrodes on teh inside of the vambrace and rusts pretty bad.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:18 pm

You might try using some of the acrylic right around the hole you've punched in the leather. I've had leather soak up sweat on a fabric covered CoP I used to wear, and eat away the aluminum. I had to trim off about an inch of the aluminum before re-edging it with leather, and the same rivets you are using.

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:03 pm

total amateur chiming in here (but have similar heavy sweating issues). I was taught to use either brass or copper on metal/leather contact points and only use steel/brass on metal/metal points in heavy sweating areas. Over time I found that yes, copper outlasted steel for leather/steel contact in heavy sweat zones, but brass outlasted copper overall. Being in the Detroit area it wasn't difficult to get brass/copper rivets but I know alot of others that only used the speed/quick rivets from Tandy. Alas, on me they die fairly quick (usually within a single melee season) so I stopped using them aside from emergency repairs.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:13 am

try a different material for the splints and seal the leather.
as your using vegtan I would sugest using kilkenneys oven hardening method and then sealing the leather with acrylic floor polish. check your Quickrivest with a magnet and make shure they are not steel.
Stainless splints are probibly your best choice for material.
Aluminum will work but if its not the good stuff of a known alloy expect to replace them regularly.
ABS or Kydex will also work but need to be replace after a while usualy you need 1/8 or 3/16materil for these to last.
If you have the leather you can harden them and use those this gives you a few more options to decorate and can look very spiff with just a little time investment.

benz72 · Post by **benz72** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:28 am

When I put leather splints on my cuisses I sewed them on. Haven't had a problem with them yet (3years?). All my leather to leather joints are sewn unless there is a pivot which required riveting, in which case I make sure I use a nice big backing washer to prevent pull through.
Some other questinos...
Do you line your vembraces with anything? oadding? cloth?
Do you let them dry after fighting or toss them in an armor bag until you fight again?
Do you ever wash them off with fresh water? If so, how often?
What specific kind of rust are you getting (greeninsh? reddish?) and what specifically is failing (rivet?, leather around the rivet?)

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:18 am

The splints are actually titanium (Thanks Rikr!) so I don't have to worry about corrosion on them, and they are on the outside of the leather so they don't get a lot of sweat.... but the inside does.... so I'll go buy some good oiltanned leather (or chrome tanned) and see if that works better with some small (#12) copper rivets.

JP

Leather and Corrosion

Leather and Corrosion

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