Heavy Combat on the Cheep?

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:39 am

As someone who wore DV armor for years (*please* don't burn me to a crisp! it's pretty common armor up here near where it's made, and I didn't have the guidance from folks here, back then...!), here's my take:

- The biggest issue is that the overall shape is VERY hard to disguise. The shoulders, and chest armor, have a distinct silhouette that is hard to just toss a tunic over. I glued thin leather over mine, which looks...better...but is still not really ideal.
- The knees are grossly oversized for what is needed. They will knock together. They will trip you. The legs will slide down even if pointed (550 cord is NOT enough for straps).
- This is stuff you can probably make yourself. It's pretty cheap, but cheaper to do your own, if you have any skill with tools at all. Yours will fit better, too, and the process of making will help you learn how to do repairs.

That said, on the plus side:
- The DV armor is impenetrable. You're NOT going to get hurt wearing this stuff. I got bruises if the leg armor slipped, but my first Pennsic I had been in armor only a couple of months, and was buried three deep a time or two, without any issues at all. *Highly* protective armor.
- The gorget is just darned good. Covered with leather (I glued mine on) and restrapped with leather cord, it looks like a leather gorget. Lined with some padding, it is the best gorget I have worn. I continue to wear it, and am fairly convinced it has saved me from serious injury several times.

All that said... If you have access to some loaner gear, use that for a bit. Learn what you like, what you don't. Figure out what period you'd like to represent. You have multiple offers of local help from people with workshops - that's HUGE, and wonderful, and will be of immense value to you. Take those offers!

Don't jump into the first easy set of armor you can toss money at. Unless you tend to have a lot of free cash, you might end up stuck in this first set for a few years. Take the time to get or make something you will be happy with!

Concretely, if you want viking, an option might be something like:
- Hjalmir spangenhelm - $100
- *Riveted* mail shirt - $200 (but try one on first, they're a lot of weight for not a huge return in protection - but look GREAT and add amazing value to the look and feel of your kit!)
- Stonekeep or Hjalmir knees and elbows - ~$20-30 total
- Four yeards of linen from http://www.fabrics-store.com/ gets you shirt, pants, and winnigas (leg wraps) for about $25 (you want linen, start right!)
- gorget from Hjalmir is $25, or $20 from Dark Victory, or similar prices from several other places
- $10 or so for a big barrel - useful for making splints for forearms, upper legs, and chest/back. Hide the chest/back armor under your tunic and mail - I know a couple people who wear plastic that is basically four circles strapped together with leather - two big ones front and back, two smaller on the sides. Totally invisible under the tunic and mail.
- Some leather for strapping things together, maybe for covering wrists (with splints under?) - varies, but you can usually find some pretty cheap.

Total is a bit under $400, and half of that is the mail, which you can probably do without as a newbie. Move up to the mail when you can afford it.

Again, take that local help! In my experience, fighters everywhere love talking armor, and love helping get new targe...er, people into armor. We're a crowd that tends to believe in "the more, the merrier!"

And welcome! =)

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:27 pm

I didn't get a chance to participate in face beating today but I did talk to my friend who initially turned me on to the hobby. He is going to help me get set up with some vacuum molded cops, splinted leather bracers and a brigandine.

Finnvarthr Finnbogason · Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:44 pm

Owyn,
Where can you find a *riveted* mail shirt for $200??? I want one!!!

Fynvar

Stahlgrim · Post by **Stahlgrim** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:46 pm

ya count me in for a $200 riveted mail shirt as well

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:56 pm

I see butted and riveted mail. I assume riveted mail is more sturdy than butted. Is butted suitable for combat? Or does it just shed apart?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:04 pm

Resist buying anything until you have a mentor or mentors locally to help guide you. This will save you hundreds to even thousands of dollars.

But, plate (stainless steel, mild steel, aluminum, plastic) helps protect better than mail (flexible).

The 14th Century is a good century to start with IMO.

Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction: The 14th Century, is astounding. Try and find out if you can pick it up on interlibrary loan. IF the 14th Century is of interest, that's the first $60 I'd consider spending. And there is an excellent 14th Century support group here on the Archive.

http://www.amazon.com/Techniques-Mediev ... 1581600984

With respect,

-Aaron

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:46 pm

FynvarWyrmskin wrote:Owyn,
Where can you find a *riveted* mail shirt for $200??? I want one!!!

Fynvar

There's one on ebay right now for $160.

You can also find 'em for $100-200 on assorted "I import cheap crappy armor" sites all over the web.

Caveat emptor.

Some of them should be totally viable for a few years of light use as newbie armor, before you can invest in a more reliable set.

Finnvarthr Finnbogason · Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:01 pm

Owyn you are absolutely right. There is a shirt on ebay for $160. PLUS $199 shipping from India! :lol:

I've actually been watching the one for shirt and coif. I wish I had a contact in India who could pick it up for me and ship it over cheaper. I want a blackened flat riveted 18ga shirt REAL bad, but can't swing the big payout.
:cry:

Oh well. In the meantime I made body armor out of 1/8" ABS plastic which I wear under a tunic. You can't tell by looking at me that I have any armor on at all. I liek that hidden armor look, though.

Fynvar

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:01 pm

Whoops!

Missed the shipping. Darn. Only ones I can find right now are aluminum riveted: one on Ebay for $215 (including shipping, from UK) and the ever-fun ThinkGeek ones ($99-199 - *no* idea how good the construction is on these...! I am not recommending them, just mentioning them!).

Could have sworn I saw mild steel for similar, but maybe not.

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:44 pm

Thinkgeek looks interesting. Wondering on the quality. I think for now I am going to focus on getting the cash for the leather and helmet that I need to buy. Later when I get everything up and running, I will try to find suitable mail to get the viking look up to standards.

Bran MacNiell · Post by **Bran MacNiell** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:03 am

In addition to the links folks gave earlyer you might want to look at some of the threads on the "I want to be a..." section of the board. There are some great ideas on those threads, and it helps to narrow down things a lot.
take a look at:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=43165
and maybe
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=46922

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:45 am

I may get flamed for this, but as a new fighter in FLORIDA, I would not recommend chainmail.

Don't get me wrong, it looks great and is accurate, but the heat and humidity down here is rather tough to armour up in, and chainmail would seem to add to that. I think chainmail is adding a cost to your initial kit that, given where you live, seems unnecessary. There is a reason very few Trimarians fight in chainmail.

Now, that being said, at some point I am planning on getting a haubergeon myself just to try, but I am not forced to do things on the cheap.

To quote Mordreth:

I officially give props to anyone who puts on a helm in Trimaris.
Your climate blowzzzz.

And he wasn't even here during the bad months...

Would any of the more experienced fighters in Trimaris like to chime in?

Finnvarthr Finnbogason · Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:32 am

Well, I don't live in Trimaris anymore, but I am a native of the South (born and raised in New Orleans, cher!). I can say that I LOVE my Valsgarde6 helmet. I used a period suspension type liner and that coupled with the open weavework style of the helmet crown allows airflow and keeps me alot cooler than any other helm I've ever worn. Since most of your body heat escapes from the head, it follows that keeping your head cool is an excellent first step. My ABS body armor has 1/2" holes drilled in it so it looks kinda like wiffleball armor, but that helps with cooling as well. I have found that minimizing the amount of closed cell foam you use and going with more period padding both helps keep you cooler and protects better. Closed cell foam insulates really well.

Most importantly, DRINK LOTS OF WATER!
It's important to stay properly hydrated so that your blood flows easily for the mosquitoes!

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:22 am

Once again thank you all for the replies.

Ive been boxing and doing mixed martial arts for about two years now, mostly training outdoors, So I am well aware of the climate that is Florida and the accompanying misery associated with it.

I will keep the padding in mind Fynver, and I had previously looked over the "I want to be..." Threads and there is loads on interesting information in there.

Romulus · Post by **Romulus** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:26 pm

Man, I know people comming and going from India all the time. I'm going to start paying attention to those kinds of deals in the future. The trick will be to convince them to squeeze that in their suit case on the way home along with the piles of sarhi's and assorted goodies that tend to get priority.

Henry of Bexley · Post by **Henry of Bexley** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:24 pm

Maille acts like a heat sink when worn, and allows air to pass right through it.

In my experience, it actually keeps you cooler.

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:41 pm

Wear as much 100% linen as you can, skip the under armor. Linen is better IMO. And looks better. There is a big difference between Boxing MMA and what we do in the heat about 30 to 40 pounds wrapped around your body stopping air flow. I dont know of any Boxing/MMA that is done in direct sun light on the face of the sun (Florida) and metal transfers heat both ways. The sun in the summer hitting the lists can exceed 140. Drink water and your sport drink of choice long before you get into armor. It will help with your recovery after fighting. Fight left handed (GOD will it!!!) and its just cool :wink:

I recommend ABS its cheep and last time I looked there was a supplier off of L.B. Mcleod road in Orlando that sells sheets. Good for body and Legs use leather for arms (if Norse). Pick a time period so you dont make things multiple times. I have 3 sets of armor because I want to. 11Th century Norse, 14th century French, and 15th century German. Many people can help you find what you are looking for all you need to do is find what you like in Medieval European History.

There are enough people around Trimaris to help you make most everything you need. Just be friendly and ask.

Thor.

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:43 pm

Our summers are a different animal altogether. I get cold at Pennsic.

Thor.

Henry of Bexley wrote:Maille acts like a heat sink when worn, and allows air to pass right through it.

In my experience, it actually keeps you cooler.

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:00 am

If I ever need to cut weight, I can just suit up and go do some fighting. Would be more entertaining than trash bag suits anyway...

Thorstenn · Post by **Thorstenn** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:37 pm

I drop a few pounds during practice, I gain it all back going to dinner after :lol:

Thanks "Tijuana flats" That's were I go after a Darkwater practice.

Thor.

Royal wrote::lol: If I ever need to cut weight, I can just suit up and go do some fighting. Would be more entertaining than trash bag suits anyway...

Royal · Post by **Royal** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:03 pm

That is where I have been going the past two weeks after practice as well. Love me some chimichangas.