How friggin cool is that!!!

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:46 pm

http://ardal.smugmug.com/gallery/2597042#136930575

Wow! I wish I had seen that tourney. Awesome!

Marvin · Post by **Marvin** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:55 pm

It was pretty damn cool. Though it did create something of a footing issue for the field battle which followed.

Aidan Cambel · Post by **Aidan Cambel** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:13 pm

Thats my Knight( Sir Lex, Britehelm on here) in the red.

Syrfinn · Post by **Syrfinn** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:15 pm

Ok, that could even get me to want to try and get up on a horse.

And some of you know my ways of being a grunt/ground pounder. And no time for the frilly pretty boys up on those horses.

But yeah, that could turn me into a cavalry man pretty quickly.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:17 pm

Are those standard SCA weapons?

It's gorgeous, and I'm not in the slightest trying to naysay the practice.. but goodonyas if you have the ability to pull that off AND the control that the horses don't get thumped!

NEAT STUFF!

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:35 pm

My understanding is that they're rattan weapons, but covered in foam, to reduce injury to the horses. It was amazing to watch.

Nigel, Duke of Arrochar · Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:15 pm

I watched my wife authorize and I posted as much of the rules that I could remember on this thread:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=71265

Enjoy.

Cheers,

blackbow · Post by **blackbow** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:18 pm

um, twiki, didn't you sing the Atlantian Army onto the field for the field battles? This was right before the field battle started. Or did you hobble off somewhere while it was going on?

JB

BdeB wrote:http://ardal.smugmug.com/gallery/2597042#136930575

Wow! I wish I had seen that tourney. Awesome!

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:43 pm

I sang us on to the field for the Bridge Battle the day before, that must be what you are thinking of.

I missed my favorite two battles this year. (the field and the town). I wasn't up for fighting just yet by wednesday, fought on thursday (ravine and bridge) and took friday off (Field) because I wasn't able to run and didn't want to slow us down. I was there for the castle of course on saturday, where we ended up doing a little running after all.

Though, of course, I was all the way in the back of that column...Singing up out of the Abby and up to the breach was pretty awesome though.

jester · Post by **jester** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:55 pm

That is inspirational.

Well freaking done to everyone involved in that.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:59 pm

Hmmm.... kinda reminds me strongly of the ACW "Dance of the Sabre Fairies"!

(Which I admit is a lot of fun.)

I hate to be too negative here, but I want to remind everyone to keep in mind that you can't expect to just jump on a pony and expect to do this sort of thing well and safely. I'd strongly suggest some serious riding lessons prior to trying this kind of fun. They're not exactly like motorcycles, and frankly it takes years to get to the level of experience that one really should have for such games as this, especially when you're handling sword and shield both. It's remarkably easy to cut up a horse's mouth with the bit by hauling sharply on the reins, which if you're using your shield is easy to do, unfortunately. Learning to use your legs, and having a horse that understands those commands takes a while, and lots of saddle time for both of you. BUT, that being said (and done), actually getting the SCA "Chivalry" up on a horse is a positive thing.

One of the downsides to this type of horse game is that all you need to do is get your horse smacked good ONCE in the head with that heavy stick, and his playing days in this game are over. Horses are lots smarter than people sometimes...

The 2-1/2 pound stick limit noted above is better than the 5 pound limit that was postulated here (An Tir) for such games though. 5 pounds is just too heavy to pull your punch with if a horse's head gets in the way of your swing.

What is totally bizarre to me though is that a melee like this is passed as fun and "safe" for man and horse, while actual jousting with balsa tips, running down a tilt with countertilt, is scary and "unsafe", so only foam tips are allowed. It does take real steel plate armour to joust with balsa, but heck, they usually break.

Anyway, rant over. It IS WONDERFULLY cool to play mounted combat, I recommend it highly. Just take into account both the man and the horse's level of training, and don't do it with untrained either. A major horse wreck would end this fun for all of us real quick, so please be safe out there! Sabatons or solerets in a modern stirrup... not too sure about that idea...

Allons!

Gordon

Skorri · Post by **Skorri** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:07 pm

One of the combatants fell off his horse soon after it started, I know that had to hurt !

Rey · Post by **Rey** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:13 pm

Yea the gentleman who fell is Duke Max from Meridies. He fell and then got back up on the horse to finish it out.

Rey

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:32 pm

The participants that I know (Sir Gideon, Lady Bridget, Sir Alexis and Sir Henri) are all serious long-term horse people who put in serious training time getting their horses used to this kind of activity. Even then Bridget's horse was having none of the melee and stood stock-still on the fringe of it while the others cleared the field. This was great to watch and fun for the participants, but not something that you would jump into without months of preparation for both horse and rider.

There will be more equestrian combat with these riders and others (and foot combat too!) at the Lysts at Castleton in Austin, Texas in May. Come see it!

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:19 pm

Maelgwyn wrote:The participants that I know (Sir Gideon, Lady Bridget, Sir Alexis and Sir Henri) are all serious long-term horse people who put in serious training time getting their horses used to this kind of activity. Even then Bridget's horse was having none of the melee and stood stock-still on the fringe of it while the others cleared the field. This was great to watch and fun for the participants, but not something that you would jump into without months of preparation for both horse and rider.

Thanks, I appreciate your posting this info.

Cheers!

Gordon

Sinclair Hawkins · Post by **Sinclair Hawkins** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:21 pm

Clermont wrote:My understanding is that they're rattan weapons, but covered in foam, to reduce injury to the horses. It was amazing to watch.

Basically the boffer weapons that the older kids use to help protect the horses. I am SO doing that when I get regular access to a horse again

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:24 pm

Just from my limited equestrian exp it looked like Max's sturripus were set too low, we're about the same size and compared to how they're set for me on a horse that size, it looked to low for him to post porperly while riding. I think it was an equipment problem rather than a rider or horse problem.

Once he got back on it didn't seem to bother him.

I'm glad he's ok.

Sinclair Hawkins · Post by **Sinclair Hawkins** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:32 pm

Murdock wrote:Just from my limited equestrian exp it looked like Max's sturripus were set too low, we're about the same size and compared to how they're set for me on a horse that size, it looked to low for him to post porperly while riding. I think it was an equipment problem rather than a rider or horse problem.

Once he got back on it didn't seem to bother him.

I'm glad he's ok.

actually I was hanging around the horses before they went onto the field and one thing we noticed alot of the horses had done had been to puff up a great deal when being saddled. We were cranking down on a couple of girths just a few moments before they went on. I don't think that he was one of the ones we adjusted and it would have have changed his stirups if that was the issue. Just goes to show you how important the proper equip is for a event like that.

Ottokar · Post by **Ottokar** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:32 pm

Maeryk wrote:... but goodonyas if you have the ability to pull that off AND the control that the horses don't get thumped!

That's what caught my attention more than the fight itself ... the combination of skills necessary to carry it off.

And on reflection, just the huge amount of work it must take to maintain a horse on site as well as its transport to and from. A lot of work. A lot of money.

I spent some time watching the cavalry drills Thur? Fri? and off to the side, two horses and their riders were doing exercises to help desensitize the horses to the chaos of combat ... yelling, giggling, playing "touch the butt" with the horses, grabbing the horse's head and ears, and finally the two riders trying to grab each others hair or touch the ears (think of the arms reaching out, blocking, striking). Fun and training, both together.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:57 pm

Oh!

My!

GOD!

I was debating about getting involved in the equestrian activities but wasn't too enthusied about the pool-noodle lances and other equipment requirements. THIS I could latch onto whole hog. Excuse me while I go sign up for riding lessons. It's been a long time since I sat on a horse...

Sean

P.S. And I KNOW I can build a 100% acceptable Rene style kloben in foam over rattan that would be PERFECT for this style game.

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:59 pm

I. Want. To. Do. That.

That is just awesome. RenÃ© tourney, here we come!

Raynold of Wharram · Post by **Raynold of Wharram** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:03 pm

As I was one of the guys that authed for this stuff at GW and a long time equestrian marshall (was on the field when this thing was going on) thought I would give you all some insight.

First, the basic rules are: http://www.conroi.org/MountedCombat.htm
Second, the activity itself is still experimental and not a regular thing. Have to get permission from everyone up through your chain of command to do it at all.
Third, the melee format seen here was by special permission of about 100 different folks including the society equestrian marshal and the overall marshall at GW and I don't know who all else. Normally the format is 1 on 1, though the melee stuff is awesome.

The person posting about the blow to the head should note that the weapon is padded and so is the poll (read the rules for specifics) of the horses head (the part that would cause the problems he indicated). I am not saying by this that still couldn't be issue arise, but I do think (as a horse owner and long time practicer of things similar to this outside of the SCA) that it significantly reduces the risk.

I would love to see 20 or 30 on each side for this in the future if it is allowed to continue - but I would strongly caution it is not something for everyone. Don't run out and buy a horse just for this. It requires a good deal of saddle time for most to get good enough to do this kind of thing (just like I got a LOT of practice to get good at the heavy field). Beyond that keeping horses is expensive and not something to be taken lightly. And whoever said something about the cost involved in taking horses to a war is right on and beyond that you got get up early and check on them and usually check them before turning in and on top of that you got stalls to muck and that much more equipment to take care of and that doesn't even get into extra fuel cost, cost for stall rental, and health certs, etc...

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:55 pm

That is exactly what I want to do! I`m not close to a good enough rider yet, but someday!
Gordon is one hundred percent right- it would take a lot of saddle time to get to a level that one could ride well enough to do that, as well as a lot of training for the horse. Also a lot of saddle time on the horse your going to fight on. Leg and seat direction would be critical for this kind of activity and that takes time to learn.

As to disciplines, what would some of the more experienced equestrians here suggest ? Personaly, I looked into both western and english and decided western was the way to go for me- western seemed to emphesize seat and leg more, and neck reining can be done more easily with one hand than direct reining. Western seems to be more geared toward a working partnership with horse and rider (IE horse and rider have a job to do that requires them to work as one, with and without reins) while english seemes more geared towards showy, riding the horse IS the work to be done type stuff. Also western apealed to me more because I want to do things like cutting, barrel racing and other rodeo type stuff!
Anyway, those are the conclusions I came to, but I would love to hear from other folks, especialy if they have a different opinion.
As to cutting up a horses mouth with the bit, what opinions do folks here have on hackamores? I`ve only used them a couple of times on horses who knew them well, but I likeed it.
BTW, My girlfriend has a two year old that shes had since about six months old. We are training him for medieval type stuff among other things. Introducing him to armor was a blast! He love it! I almost snapped of a great pic of him carrying my mail shirt in his mouth He`s pretty damned bombproof, which is a good start for attitude! We can`t wait till he`s old enough to start riding.
Drefan

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:02 pm

Again, well done guys and kudos for actually doing it.

It can be done with steel. we have been doing it for over a decade here. Never hit a horse yet.

[img]http://www.jousting.co.nz/images/Rod%20 ... 001%20.jpg[/img]
Myself in the black and Justin in the red beating the snot out of each other. We had just charged in at the canter, turned and slammed into each other. You can see the bend in the blades as we strike at each other.

So impressed that the SCA is doing this.

Neassa · Post by **Neassa** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:10 pm

That's my knight on the far right in the blue and white, Sir Alexis la Bouche. He's riding Booker. I don't know what that goofy looking thing is on Booker's head, but I do know that he finished a chanfron for his other horse just before Gulf War. I got to watch him fire it at 1:00 am Saturday night/Sunday morning. When the main piece came out and he quenched it the entire bucket of transmission fluid burst into flame, and when he rotated his piece (too big for the bucket) for a moment he was holding a completely flaming piece of armor shaped like a horse's head. It was awesome.

I'll see if I can get him to upload a picture of the completed chanfron.

Neassa

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:11 pm

I give up.

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:14 pm

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:I give up.

No, don't give up. See it as a spur to do it.

Ottokar · Post by **Ottokar** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:20 am

Here is a nice set of pics of many of the riders as the came onto the field Friday morning - posted (and taken?) by Emeric of Meridies. Scroll down about half way through

http://www.kitemitsu.com/viewtopic.php?p=26#26

An action shot ...

rob(in) · Post by **rob(in)** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:50 am

i may be an old, half-naked kidney belt fighter; but this kind of evolution in the SCA really warms my heart.

Syrfinn · Post by **Syrfinn** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:20 am

Does anyone know who the gentleman is, that looks like he is doing a late roman period personna. Granted could be anything around that time. It just kind of struck me as late roman cavalry.

There is a pic, by Joust1 on the I Want To Be Board, and that is, if this became a somewhat normal thing, would be something I would strive towards.

But yes, most of us understand, that its not something your just going to be able to do, and to be honest, I would have to pull a lot of strings just to get to the point, where I could even start training for this. Though I used to ride a lot as a kid, so at least I have something to go back on.

But have to say, just seeing that, and thinking that could possibly be something of a norm one day to see at events, that can handle it, would be nothing short of awesome.

SuGyong · Post by **SuGyong** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:24 am

T H A T ' S J U S T R I P P I N G C O O L ! ! !

Jonny Deuteronomy · Post by **Jonny Deuteronomy** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:37 am

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:I give up.

This is a breakthrough for the SCA!

You just mean you're going to give up being infantry, don'tcha?

SirAngus · Post by **SirAngus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:51 am

Hmmm... maybe I'll just have to start making trips to GW

....

With stuff like that happening, a joust cant be too far away. Even if it's just with foam, having an honest to god tourney would rock! Have the one competition span 3 days... One day of skill games.. One of a behourd and one of jousting.... Knights could actually be knights!

If jousting and horse activities looks damned cool to you. Besides the SCA, check out:
The Euro Jousting League:
http://users.skynet.be/hackamores/EJL/EJL.htm
and the International Jousting Association
www.worldjousting.com

The bigger all of this gets, the more opportunities people will have to do it

btw: Murdock - sitting trot is where it's at if you HAVE to go that speed.. IMHO there is just walk and really fast! Plus, you just cant post in a medieval style saddle!

Jonny Deuteronomy · Post by **Jonny Deuteronomy** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:19 am

Posting?

If you want my advice; if you want to learn mounted combat, learn the western pleasure riding style and then LEARN TO SIT AS DEEPLY AS YOU CAN IN THAT THERE SADDLE, PILGRIM. At all gaits. That would entail NOT posting. Ever.

I am not even sure.....could one post effectively in 50-100 pounds of a harness?

The first time your ballzak slips under your pelvis because you lifted up, and you come down hard onto your jubblies, you will plant that ass into the leather like an oak tree forever more. And wear your snuggest whitey tighties.

If I can see daylight under your ass when I am about to hit you, this might not be your best day.

Mother Earth adores Knights, and frequently she rushes to embrace us!

No need to encourage her!

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:20 am

Finn i think the earliest anyone was dressed was 11th century Norman knight, though Max does do a late Roman rig for foot combat i think he was Normaned up for this.

Angus i'm with ya on the canter trot thing, horses are big enough that i find that pleanty fast.

I've heard ya cann post in medieval saddles, but i think most of the guys, except maybe Wulfric and Lex were on English Saddles.
Poor me thats all i really can ride on, in fact HRM Tristram of Calontir and i had a conversation to that effect. HRM was of the mind that one cannot properly ride on a western saddle and i concur. Too much hardware and too much leather.

How friggin cool is that!!!

How friggin cool is that!!!

Re: How friggin cool is that!!!

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